Discussion:
Most Chain Restaurants in One Shopping Center
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sms
2016-06-30 00:12:02 UTC
Permalink
Shopping Center with the Most Chain Restaurants

I'm working near Pacific Commons on Automall in Fremont. That shopping
center must have the most chains of any shopping center. This is the
restaurant list:

Applebees
Bennigan's
Blaze Pizza
Bowl of Heaven
Buffalo Wild Wings
Claim Jumper
Coldstone Creamery
Cream
Dickey's BBQ
Dish 'N Dash
Firehouse Subs
Five Guys Burgers & Fries
In-N-Out Burger
Jamba Juice
Krispy Kreme
Little Mad Fish 2
Market Broiler
Ono Hawaiian BBQ
Pancheros
Panda Express
Panera Bread
PF Chang's China Bistro
Rubio's
Starbucks (inside Target)
Tapioca Express
The Habit Burger Grill
The Kebab Shop
The Prolific Oven
Wingstop

Across the street are:

Wendy's
Chick Fil A
Chipotle
Subway
La Salsa
Sunfish Poke
Starbucks

Interestingly there are no ice cream or frozen yogurt shops, and no
Burger King, McDonald's or Jack in the Box.
Eddie Grove
2016-06-30 01:51:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by sms
Coldstone Creamery
Cream
Interestingly there are no ice cream or frozen yogurt shops
I am confused. Do you consider those not to be ice cream?


Eddie
Steve Pope
2016-06-30 02:56:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by sms
I'm working near Pacific Commons on Automall in Fremont. That shopping
center must have the most chains of any shopping center. This is the
Fremont is the bum end of the bay area


S.
pfraser
2016-06-30 03:06:22 UTC
Permalink
sms wrote:

I'm curious as to how many of these places the
various denizens of ba.food have eaten at in their
lifetimes.

The score for me is eight.
Post by sms
Applebees
Bennigan's
Blaze Pizza
Bowl of Heaven
Buffalo Wild Wings
Claim Jumper
Coldstone Creamery
Cream
Dickey's BBQ
Dish 'N Dash
Firehouse Subs
Five Guys Burgers & Fries
In-N-Out Burger
Jamba Juice
Krispy Kreme
Little Mad Fish 2
Market Broiler
Ono Hawaiian BBQ
Pancheros
Panda Express
Panera Bread
PF Chang's China Bistro
Rubio's
Starbucks (inside Target)
Tapioca Express
The Habit Burger Grill
The Kebab Shop
The Prolific Oven
Wingstop
Wendy's
Chick Fil A
Chipotle
Subway
La Salsa
Sunfish Poke
Starbucks
Interestingly there are no ice cream or frozen yogurt shops, and no
Burger King, McDonald's or Jack in the Box.
Todd Michel McComb
2016-06-30 03:19:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by pfraser
I'm curious as to how many of these places the
various denizens of ba.food have eaten at in their
lifetimes.
I count 12, most either once or a long time ago or both, not counting
the "across the street" list.
Al Eisner
2016-06-30 20:58:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd Michel McComb
Post by pfraser
I'm curious as to how many of these places the
various denizens of ba.food have eaten at in their
lifetimes.
I count 12, most either once or a long time ago or both, not counting
the "across the street" list.
17, give or take 1, including "across the street". Some of the places
are quite decent, but the range is mostly lower, down to utter crap.
--
Al Eisner
San Mateo Co., CA
Peter Lawrence
2016-07-01 00:21:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Al Eisner
Post by Todd Michel McComb
Post by pfraser
I'm curious as to how many of these places the
various denizens of ba.food have eaten at in their
lifetimes.
I count 12, most either once or a long time ago or both, not counting
the "across the street" list.
17, give or take 1, including "across the street". Some of the places
are quite decent, but the range is mostly lower, down to utter crap.
Of the 34 chains listed, I've been to 21 of them.

Those what I would be okay eating at again:

Chick Fil A
Chipotle
Cream
Five Guys Burgers & Fries
In-N-Out Burger
Krispy Kreme
La Salsa
Panda Express
Panera Bread
PF Chang's China Bistro
Rubio's
The Habit Burger Grill
The Prolific Oven
Starbucks
Subway
Wendy's
Wingstop

While most of those are only okay, I think The Habit, In-N-Out, Panera
Bread, The Prolific Oven, and Wingstop are quite good for their respective
types of restaurants. And Starbucks is fine too (though other coffee shops
are better).


- Peter
Eddie Grove
2016-06-30 06:13:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by pfraser
I'm curious as to how many of these places the
various denizens of ba.food have eaten at in their
lifetimes.
The score for me is eight.
Post by sms
Applebees
once, not too bad for desperation food off a highway late at night
Post by pfraser
Post by sms
Bennigan's
once, or maybe it was a TGIF, whichever was open next to a motel I was at
Post by pfraser
Post by sms
Blaze Pizza
Bowl of Heaven
Buffalo Wild Wings
Claim Jumper
Coldstone Creamery
once, dragged there by a friend with a kid
Post by pfraser
Post by sms
Cream
Dickey's BBQ
Dish 'N Dash
Firehouse Subs
Five Guys Burgers & Fries
once
Post by pfraser
Post by sms
In-N-Out Burger
several times, not sure why, never my own choice
Post by pfraser
Post by sms
Jamba Juice
once
Post by pfraser
Post by sms
Krispy Kreme
once [unbelievable crazy story some day]
Post by pfraser
Post by sms
Little Mad Fish 2
Market Broiler
Ono Hawaiian BBQ
Pancheros
Panda Express
Panera Bread
several times, liked their salad with chicken and strawberries
Post by pfraser
Post by sms
PF Chang's China Bistro
once
Post by pfraser
Post by sms
Rubio's
several times, liked their salmon burrito
Post by pfraser
Post by sms
Starbucks (inside Target)
Tapioca Express
The Habit Burger Grill
several times
Post by pfraser
Post by sms
The Kebab Shop
The Prolific Oven
many times
Post by pfraser
Post by sms
Wingstop
several times, wife had cravings
Post by pfraser
Post by sms
Wendy's
many times long long ago
Post by pfraser
Post by sms
Chick Fil A
Chipotle
once, almost tried a second time when they sent me coupons for free
[not 2-for-1] stuff, but when I showed up they were closed for the day
and I took that as a sign never to return even for free
Post by pfraser
Post by sms
Subway
several times
Post by pfraser
Post by sms
La Salsa
Sunfish Poke
Starbucks
many times, not inside Target

I count seventeen, nine including repeat visits.

I'll presumably eat at Prolific Oven again, because I like it,
and The Habit and Panera Bread are even more likely for convenience.
Starbucks, sadly, is likely in most people's future when dealing with
close relatives in hospitals or similar situations.
Post by pfraser
Post by sms
Interestingly there are no ice cream or frozen yogurt shops, and no
Burger King, McDonald's or Jack in the Box.
Back during Burger King's "special orders don't upset us" campaign,
Bloom County had one of my favorite comic strips of all time.
http://www.gocomics.com/bloomcounty/2013/03/10

I ate at McDonald's a few times when I was in Germany and homesick.

Back in grad school, I knew a guy who had been a vegetarian for 2 or 3
years who showed up one day with an enormous grin. He proudly
proclaimed he had ended the diet with a Jack in the Box burger.
Julian Macassey
2016-06-30 14:30:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by pfraser
I'm curious as to how many of these places the
various denizens of ba.food have eaten at in their
lifetimes.
The score for me is eight.
I can say fourteen. But none of them willingly, I am
usually with a group.

There are some people that will only eat at chain
restaurants
Post by pfraser
Post by sms
Applebees
Bennigan's
Blaze Pizza
Bowl of Heaven
Buffalo Wild Wings
Claim Jumper
Coldstone Creamery
Cream
Dickey's BBQ
Dish 'N Dash
Firehouse Subs
Five Guys Burgers & Fries
In-N-Out Burger
Jamba Juice
Krispy Kreme
Little Mad Fish 2
Market Broiler
Ono Hawaiian BBQ
Pancheros
Panda Express
Panera Bread
PF Chang's China Bistro
Rubio's
Starbucks (inside Target)
Tapioca Express
The Habit Burger Grill
The Kebab Shop
The Prolific Oven
Wingstop
Wendy's
Chick Fil A
Chipotle
Subway
La Salsa
Sunfish Poke
Starbucks
Interestingly there are no ice cream or frozen yogurt shops, and no
Burger King, McDonald's or Jack in the Box.
--
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
- George Orwell
Ciccio
2016-06-30 17:51:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Julian Macassey
I can say fourteen. But none of them willingly, I am
usually with a group.
I've also gone to a good many and in those instances I also did
go-alongs-to-get-alongs. Of those listed, the ones to which I've gone
more than once of solely of my own accord are: In-N-Out, The Habit,
Chick-fil-A, Wendy's(though not in a few years).

The chain I frequent most isn't listed - Lee's Sandwiches (about 1x-2x
per month).

Ciccio
evergene
2016-06-30 19:58:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by pfraser
I'm curious as to how many of these places the
various denizens of ba.food have eaten at in their
lifetimes.
The score for me is eight.
Post by sms
Applebees
Bennigan's
Blaze Pizza
Bowl of Heaven
Buffalo Wild Wings
Claim Jumper
Coldstone Creamery
Cream
Dickey's BBQ
Dish 'N Dash
Firehouse Subs
Five Guys Burgers & Fries
In-N-Out Burger
Jamba Juice
Krispy Kreme
Little Mad Fish 2
Market Broiler
Ono Hawaiian BBQ
Pancheros
Panda Express
Panera Bread
PF Chang's China Bistro
Rubio's
Starbucks (inside Target)
Tapioca Express
The Habit Burger Grill
The Kebab Shop
The Prolific Oven
Wingstop
Wendy's
Chick Fil A
Chipotle
Subway
La Salsa
Sunfish Poke
Starbucks
Interestingly there are no ice cream or frozen yogurt shops, and no
Burger King, McDonald's or Jack in the Box.
None in the past several years. But over a lifetime, six: Chipotle,
Wendy's, PF Chang's China Bistro, Panda Express, In-N-Out Burger,
Applebees.

That list has me wondering: if I were blindfolded and brought into
those restaurants and ate some of their food, would I (or better,
someone who actually eats at those places) be able to tell the
difference between, say, the food at Panda Express and the food at PF
Chang's, or the difference between the burgers at the many burger
joints?
Steve Pope
2016-06-30 20:03:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by sms
Bennigan's
Dickey's BBQ
In-N-Out Burger
Krispy Kreme
Rubio's
Starbucks (inside Target)
Chipotle
Subway
Starbucks
I ate at Dickey's only before it chain-ified, so maybe that
does not count.

Of the above chains, the only place I would make a point of going to
these days is Bennigan's (they have the best happy-hour deal in
Santa Clara).

Steve
Todd Michel McComb
2016-06-30 21:25:24 UTC
Permalink
I ate at Dickey's only before it chain-ified, so maybe that does
not count.
That's the only place on the list to which I'd have any personal
inclination to return -- although I suppose I might like a place
I've never tried. Their brisket is decent. I bought a pound last
summer to use as an ingredient in a salad, and it worked out pretty
well. Perhaps I'll do that again.

I count being in a Starbucks again as inevitable, and likely Jamba
Juice too, given my family etc....

The others it seems reasonable to believe I might never enter again,
although circumstances can be grim sometimes. (Airports come to
mind.)
Al Eisner
2016-06-30 23:21:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd Michel McComb
I ate at Dickey's only before it chain-ified, so maybe that does
not count.
That's the only place on the list to which I'd have any personal
inclination to return -- although I suppose I might like a place
I've never tried. Their brisket is decent. I bought a pound last
summer to use as an ingredient in a salad, and it worked out pretty
well. Perhaps I'll do that again.
I count being in a Starbucks again as inevitable, and likely Jamba
Juice too, given my family etc....
The others it seems reasonable to believe I might never enter again,
although circumstances can be grim sometimes. (Airports come to
mind.)
You mean you could resist a place called "Bowl of Heaven"? (I've not
been to one.) Seriously, though, Panera Bread is a quite rational
choice for lunch. I'll stop there. (Where is Peter when we need him?)
--
Al Eisner
San Mateo Co., CA
Ciccio
2016-06-30 20:11:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by evergene
None in the past several years. But over a lifetime, six: Chipotle,
Wendy's, PF Chang's China Bistro, Panda Express, In-N-Out Burger,
Applebees.
That list has me wondering: if I were blindfolded and brought into
those restaurants and ate some of their food, would I (or better,
someone who actually eats at those places) be able to tell the
difference between, say, the food at Panda Express and the food at PF
Chang's, or the difference between the burgers at the many burger
joints?
I'd put money that I could between Wendy's and The Habit's burgers. I
wouldn't bet, however, that I could between PF Chang's and Panda
Express's food.

Ciccio
--
If you ever hear me ordering "deecaf" coffee,
I am signaling that I have been kidnapped.
evergene
2016-07-01 15:41:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ciccio
Post by evergene
None in the past several years. But over a lifetime, six: Chipotle,
Wendy's, PF Chang's China Bistro, Panda Express, In-N-Out Burger,
Applebees.
That list has me wondering: if I were blindfolded and brought into
those restaurants and ate some of their food, would I (or better,
someone who actually eats at those places) be able to tell the
difference between, say, the food at Panda Express and the food at PF
Chang's, or the difference between the burgers at the many burger
joints?
I'd put money that I could between Wendy's and The Habit's burgers. I
wouldn't bet, however, that I could between PF Chang's and Panda
Express's food.
One of the many ways in which we differ. I couldn't distinguish one
burger from the next, unless there's some unique condiment on it.

I've seen some ads recently on YouTube for KFC Extra Crispy chicken,
in which the Colonel Sanders actor brags that the chicken is
"double-breaded." Maybe I could tell the difference between that stuff
and single-breaded fried chicken.

=-=-=

"That's the worst fried chicken I've ever seen."
-- Harland Sanders, describing the fried chicken at a Kentucky Fried
Chicken restaurant in New York, quoted in the NY Times, September 9,
1976

Harland Sanders also said (about a Kentucky Fried Chicken restaurant
in Bowling Green, KY):
"My God, that gravy is horrible. They buy tap water for 15 to 20 cents
a thousand gallons and then they mix it with flour and starch and end
up with pure wallpaper paste. And I know wallpaper paste, by God,
because I've seen my mother make it. To the wallpaper paste they add
some sludge and sell it for 65 or 75 cents a pint. There's no
nutrition in it and they ought not to be allowed to sell it. And
another thing. That new crispy recipe is nothing in the world but a
damn fried doughball stuck on some chicken."
-- From the judgement of the court in "Kentucky Fried Chicken of
Bowling Green, Inc. v. Sanders" March 14, 1978.
http://law.justia.com/cases/kentucky/supreme-court/1978/563-s-w-2d-8-1.html
Ciccio
2016-07-02 01:07:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by evergene
One of the many ways in which we differ. I couldn't distinguish one
burger from the next, unless there's some unique condiment on it.
Indeed, we differ in that my taste buds are not dead. The Habit has a
distinctive charbroiled flavor that Wendy's doesn't have, not even
close. I suspected The Habit was using liquid smoke, albeit not overly
so. The manager at the one in Pleasanton, however, outright denied it to me.

Ciccio
--
If you ever hear me ordering "decaf" coffee,
I am signaling that I have been kidnapped.
Steve Pope
2016-07-02 02:20:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ciccio
Post by evergene
One of the many ways in which we differ. I couldn't distinguish one
burger from the next, unless there's some unique condiment on it.
Indeed, we differ in that my taste buds are not dead. The Habit has a
distinctive charbroiled flavor that Wendy's doesn't have, not even
close. I suspected The Habit was using liquid smoke, albeit not overly
so. The manager at the one in Pleasanton, however, outright denied it to me.
Except at very low levels, liquid smoke is pretty distinctive.
And yes, chain restaurants (some believe Tony Roma's) use it.

As for evergene's statement, get real. Surely a burger from fresh
ground beef cannot be emulated by a frozen burger pattie, and
any of us could tell the difference.

Steve
evergene
2016-07-02 16:54:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Pope
Post by Ciccio
Post by evergene
One of the many ways in which we differ. I couldn't distinguish one
burger from the next, unless there's some unique condiment on it.
Indeed, we differ in that my taste buds are not dead. The Habit has a
distinctive charbroiled flavor that Wendy's doesn't have, not even
close. I suspected The Habit was using liquid smoke, albeit not overly
so. The manager at the one in Pleasanton, however, outright denied it to me.
Except at very low levels, liquid smoke is pretty distinctive.
And yes, chain restaurants (some believe Tony Roma's) use it.
As for evergene's statement, get real. Surely a burger from fresh
ground beef cannot be emulated by a frozen burger pattie, and
any of us could tell the difference.
Easy for you to say. You don't have to deal with the heartbreak of
dead taste buds.

-=-=-

"Oh, if I could piss the way he speaks!"
-- Georges Clemenceau on David Lloyd George
Steve Pope
2016-07-02 17:11:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by evergene
Post by Steve Pope
As for evergene's statement, get real. Surely a burger from fresh
ground beef cannot be emulated by a frozen burger pattie, and
any of us could tell the difference.
Easy for you to say. You don't have to deal with the heartbreak of
dead taste buds.
My apologies. Sorry to hear this.

Steve
Ciccio
2016-07-02 17:27:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Pope
Post by evergene
Post by Steve Pope
As for evergene's statement, get real. Surely a burger from fresh
ground beef cannot be emulated by a frozen burger pattie, and
any of us could tell the difference.
Easy for you to say. You don't have to deal with the heartbreak of
dead taste buds.
My apologies. Sorry to hear this.
I know somebody who lost his sense od smell and he states that his sense
of taste became greatly impaired. But still I bet even if he were
blindfolded he could distinguish a hamburger made with fresh ground
beef, say, In-N-Out, from a McD's one.

Ciccio
--
If you ever hear me ordering "decaf" coffee,
I am signaling that I have been kidnapped.
Steve Pope
2016-07-02 17:45:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ciccio
Post by Steve Pope
Post by evergene
Easy for you to say. You don't have to deal with the heartbreak of
dead taste buds.
My apologies. Sorry to hear this.
I know somebody who lost his sense od smell and he states that his sense
of taste became greatly impaired. But still I bet even if he were
blindfolded he could distinguish a hamburger made with fresh ground
beef, say, In-N-Out, from a McD's one.
I'm sure there are all different levels of smell/taste comrpomise.
Dead taste buds sounds pretty serious.

(I likewise have a friend who lost all sense of smell after a
general anesthesia procedure. His ability to enjoy food
gradually recovered, and the remaining senses (taste, umami,
temperature, visual) are still there.)

S.
Julian Macassey
2016-07-03 04:57:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ciccio
Post by Steve Pope
Post by evergene
Post by Steve Pope
As for evergene's statement, get real. Surely a burger from fresh
ground beef cannot be emulated by a frozen burger pattie, and
any of us could tell the difference.
Easy for you to say. You don't have to deal with the heartbreak of
dead taste buds.
My apologies. Sorry to hear this.
I know somebody who lost his sense od smell and he states that his sense
of taste became greatly impaired. But still I bet even if he were
blindfolded he could distinguish a hamburger made with fresh ground
beef, say, In-N-Out, from a McD's one.
My mother was a terrible cook. You could say that much of
that could be blamed on the fact that she was Scottish. Actually
most of her problem was she had no sense of smell and therefor no
real taste. We would tell her the cream was sour and her only
response was "Sweet as a nut!". I refused some wine because it
had become vinegar, my mother pronounced it excellent and drank
it.

But talking of vinegar, there was the time she tried to
deep fry some fish in vinegar. The vinegar fumes permeated the
house and were making my eyes water. I went into the kitchen and
asked my mother what she was doing. She had poured the malt
vinegar into the pan rather than the oil - Her eyesight wasn't
grat either. Her comment was "I was wondering why the fish wasn't
browning."

So yes, with no sense of taste you couldn't tell the
difference between burgers.
--
The barbarous custom of having men beaten who are suspected of having
important secrets to reveal must be abolished. - Napoléon Bonaparte
evergene
2016-07-02 21:47:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Pope
Post by evergene
Post by Steve Pope
As for evergene's statement, get real. Surely a burger from fresh
ground beef cannot be emulated by a frozen burger pattie, and
any of us could tell the difference.
Easy for you to say. You don't have to deal with the heartbreak of
dead taste buds.
My apologies. Sorry to hear this.
Thanks. It's not clear how serious this is. The condition was only
diagnosed yesterday, by Ciccio. He did the diagnosis remotely, like
Senator Bill Frist diagnosed Terry Schiavo.
Todd Michel McComb
2016-07-02 22:43:59 UTC
Permalink
He did the diagnosis remotely, like Senator Bill Frist diagnosed
Terry Schiavo.
Well, sure. People too close to a situation can't be objective,
right?
Ciccio
2016-07-02 23:51:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd Michel McComb
He did the diagnosis remotely, like Senator Bill Frist diagnosed
Terry Schiavo.
Well, sure. People too close to a situation can't be objective,
right?
My problem with Frist was his advocacy against internet gambling.

Ciccio
--
If you ever hear me ordering "decaf" coffee,
I am signaling that I have been kidnapped.
Todd Michel McComb
2016-07-03 00:56:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ciccio
My problem with Frist was his advocacy against internet gambling.
The most obnoxious thing about internet gambling is when they try
to claim it isn't gambling. Daily Fantasy game of skill, my ass.
Ciccio
2016-07-03 06:32:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd Michel McComb
Post by Ciccio
My problem with Frist was his advocacy against internet gambling.
The most obnoxious thing about internet gambling is when they try
to claim it isn't gambling. Daily Fantasy game of skill, my ass.
It involves skill at about the same level as day trading. Yet, day
trading isn't usually categorized as internet gambling.

Ciccio
--
If you ever hear me ordering "decaf" coffee,
I am signaling that I have been kidnapped.
Todd Michel McComb
2016-07-03 06:55:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ciccio
It involves skill at about the same level as day trading. Yet, day
trading isn't usually categorized as internet gambling.
That's right. Day trading should be put into the same group of
things.

You've got to get to some pretty stupid games, that generally no
one but children want to play, to have a gambling situation that
doesn't involve "skill."
Eddie Grove
2016-07-03 23:40:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd Michel McComb
Post by Ciccio
It involves skill at about the same level as day trading. Yet, day
trading isn't usually categorized as internet gambling.
That's right. Day trading should be put into the same group of
things.
There's a lot more skill in daily fantasy than in day trading.
The difference between the best and the average is much greater.
Post by Todd Michel McComb
You've got to get to some pretty stupid games, that generally no
one but children want to play, to have a gambling situation that
doesn't involve "skill."
Plenty of adults play roulette, slots, or lotto.

If you want to crack down on gambling, start by targeting the worst
offenders, which I assume are the state lotteries.


Eddie

Steve Pope
2016-07-03 01:02:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ciccio
My problem with Frist was his advocacy against internet gambling.
Surely this places Frist on the side of Native Americans.
A bit of an odd stance for a Republican.

S.
Julian Macassey
2016-07-03 05:00:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ciccio
He did the diagnosis remotely, like Senator Bill Frist diagnosed
Terry Schiavo.
My problem with Frist was his advocacy against internet gambling.
Advocacy no doubt financed by the brick and mortar casino
industry rather than a group believing that gambling was evil.

We have the best politicians money can buy.
--
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
- George Orwell
Ciccio
2016-07-02 22:56:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by evergene
Post by Steve Pope
Post by evergene
Post by Steve Pope
As for evergene's statement, get real. Surely a burger from fresh
ground beef cannot be emulated by a frozen burger pattie, and
any of us could tell the difference.
Easy for you to say. You don't have to deal with the heartbreak of
dead taste buds.
My apologies. Sorry to hear this.
Thanks. It's not clear how serious this is. The condition was only
diagnosed yesterday, by Ciccio. He did the diagnosis remotely, like
Senator Bill Frist diagnosed Terry Schiavo.
I made no diagnosis. I merely made a reasonable inference based upon
your inability to taste the difference between any two hamburgers made
at different eateries absent condiments.

Ah yes, Terry Schiavo, I'm still wondering if it were her who preferred
the non-Italian anglicized pronunciation of her name or the media's
preference.

Ciccio
--
If you ever hear me ordering "decaf" coffee,
I am signaling that I have been kidnapped.
Steve Pope
2016-07-03 01:00:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ciccio
Ah yes, Terry Schiavo, I'm still wondering if it were her who preferred
the non-Italian anglicized pronunciation of her name or the media's
preference.
Ah. Since I normally only consume print/text media and not
audio/video media, I had not realized they were mispronouncing
her name (on top of other indignities).

Also, they mispronounce "Reno" (Italian for Rhine), "Lodi" and,
well this is perhaps a stretch, "Chicago".

Steve
Ciccio
2016-07-03 02:12:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Pope
Post by Ciccio
Ah yes, Terry Schiavo, I'm still wondering if it were her who preferred
the non-Italian anglicized pronunciation of her name or the media's
preference.
Ah. Since I normally only consume print/text media and not
audio/video media, I had not realized they were mispronouncing
her name (on top of other indignities).
Like I said, I'm not sure whether she pronounced it that way or not or
just the media. I've known a number of Italian (and Hispanic)-Americans
who prefer the Americanized/anglicized versions of their names. What I
found odd is how the media pronounced the "Sopranos" Americanized, but
in the show it would be pronounced as Italian.
Post by Steve Pope
Also, they mispronounce "Reno" (Italian for Rhine), "Lodi" and,
well this is perhaps a stretch, "Chicago".
I didn't know they were based on Italian words/names. OK, without
Goggling, what is the largest California city with a non-Hispanic based
name?


Ciccio
--
If you ever hear me ordering "decaf" coffee,
I am signaling that I have been kidnapped.
sf
2016-07-03 03:49:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ciccio
I've known a number of Italian (and Hispanic)-Americans
who prefer the Americanized/anglicized versions of their names.
My last name comes originally from Spain and I've heard it pronounced
by a native of Barcelona whose best friend has the same last name.
After repeated tries, I found it totally impossible to pronounce
properly... and that's how it goes.
--
sf
Todd Michel McComb
2016-07-03 04:55:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ciccio
I didn't know they were based on Italian words/names.
A theory that "Chicago" is based on Italian somehow would be quite
a theory.
Post by Ciccio
OK, without Goggling, what is the largest California city with a
non-Hispanic based name?
It isn't Oakland?
Todd Michel McComb
2016-07-03 05:07:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd Michel McComb
Post by Ciccio
OK, without Goggling, what is the largest California city with a
non-Hispanic based name?
It isn't Oakland?
After my off the cuff answer, I did look on Wikipedia, which claims
it to be Long Beach. (I thought I might be missing some LA suburb.)
This still leaves your interest in the question as a mystery.
sms
2016-07-03 14:46:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd Michel McComb
Post by Todd Michel McComb
Post by Ciccio
OK, without Goggling, what is the largest California city with a
non-Hispanic based name?
It isn't Oakland?
After my off the cuff answer, I did look on Wikipedia, which claims
it to be Long Beach. (I thought I might be missing some LA suburb.)
This still leaves your interest in the question as a mystery.
Largest is Bakersfield.
Most Populous in Long Beach.
Ciccio
2016-07-03 17:50:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by sms
Post by Todd Michel McComb
Post by Todd Michel McComb
Post by Ciccio
OK, without Goggling, what is the largest California city with a
non-Hispanic based name?
It isn't Oakland?
After my off the cuff answer, I did look on Wikipedia, which claims
it to be Long Beach. (I thought I might be missing some LA suburb.)
This still leaves your interest in the question as a mystery.
Largest is Bakersfield.
Most Populous in Long Beach.
Either way, it isn't Oakland.

So, the city with the largest population and a non-Hispanic based name
is Long Beach while the city with the largest area and a non-Hispanic
based name is Bakersfield.

Ciccio
--
If you ever hear me ordering "decaf" coffee,
I am signaling that I have been kidnapped.
Ciccio
2016-07-03 06:32:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd Michel McComb
Post by Ciccio
I didn't know they were based on Italian words/names.
A theory that "Chicago" is based on Italian somehow would be quite
a theory.
Post by Ciccio
OK, without Goggling, what is the largest California city with a
non-Hispanic based name?
It isn't Oakland?
No it isn't.

Ciccio
--
If you ever hear me ordering "decaf" coffee,
I am signaling that I have been kidnapped.
Steve Pope
2016-07-03 06:46:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd Michel McComb
Post by Ciccio
OK, without Goggling, what is the largest California city with a
non-Hispanic based name?
It isn't Oakland?
That seems correct to me ...

S.
Ciccio
2016-07-03 07:08:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Pope
Post by Todd Michel McComb
Post by Ciccio
OK, without Goggling, what is the largest California city with a
non-Hispanic based name?
It isn't Oakland?
That seems correct to me ...
It is correct that it is NOT Oakland.

Ciccio
--
If you ever hear me ordering "decaf" coffee,
I am signaling that I have been kidnapped.
sf
2016-07-03 03:38:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Pope
Post by Ciccio
Ah yes, Terry Schiavo, I'm still wondering if it were her who preferred
the non-Italian anglicized pronunciation of her name or the media's
preference.
Ah. Since I normally only consume print/text media and not
audio/video media, I had not realized they were mispronouncing
her name (on top of other indignities).
No idea how you think Schiavo is supposed to be pronounced. I always
heard it pronounced this way

- the family had plenty of time to correct them if they were wrong.
Post by Steve Pope
Also, they mispronounce "Reno" (Italian for Rhine), "Lodi" and,
well this is perhaps a stretch, "Chicago".
I don't think any of them are mispronounced, but they do mispronounce
Nevada on a regular basis. They learned how to pronounce Viet Nam,
Banh Mi and Qatar, I bet they could even learn how to pronounce Aioli.
--
sf
Ciccio
2016-07-03 06:32:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by sf
No idea how you think Schiavo is supposed to be pronounced.
It should be pronounced the way the person who holds the name wants it
pronounced, that's that. Like I said I know many Italian(and
Hispanic)-Americans who pronounce their name differently than in the
land of the name's origin. I can, however, confidently tell you that
few, if any people in Italy pronounce the name Schiavo as in the below
link you posted. Hint: Think how "chi" is pronounced in the wine chianti
(In Italian chi=key).

But hey, that person's name, that person's rules. Some people are very
adamant about using the Americanized/anglicized versions of their names.
For example, Al Capone was adamant that his name not be pronounced as in
Italian (Ka-PO-nay

I have a Hispanic friend with the last name Jiminez and he adamantly
insists it be pronounced the anglicized Jim-me-NEZ and not the Spanish
pronounciation He-men-NEZ. His name, his rules, but there's assholes who
tell him he's pronouncing HIS name wrong.

I always heard it pronounced this way
Post by sf
http://youtu.be/f5MiTgZOzIg
- the family had plenty of time to correct them if they were wrong.
Ciccio
--
If you ever hear me ordering "decaf" coffee,
I am signaling that I have been kidnapped.
evergene
2016-07-03 15:54:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Pope
Post by Ciccio
Ah yes, Terry Schiavo, I'm still wondering if it were her who preferred
the non-Italian anglicized pronunciation of her name or the media's
preference.
Ah. Since I normally only consume print/text media and not
audio/video media, I had not realized they were mispronouncing
her name (on top of other indignities).
Also, they mispronounce "Reno" (Italian for Rhine), "Lodi" and,
well this is perhaps a stretch, "Chicago".
Steve
I have a sudden craving for some bruschetta.
Ciccio
2016-07-03 17:48:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by evergene
Post by Steve Pope
Post by Ciccio
Ah yes, Terry Schiavo, I'm still wondering if it were her who preferred
the non-Italian anglicized pronunciation of her name or the media's
preference.
Ah. Since I normally only consume print/text media and not
audio/video media, I had not realized they were mispronouncing
her name (on top of other indignities).
Also, they mispronounce "Reno" (Italian for Rhine), "Lodi" and,
well this is perhaps a stretch, "Chicago".
Steve
I have a sudden craving for some bruschetta.
And no guanciale with it?

Ciccio
--
If you ever hear me ordering "decaf" coffee,
I am signaling that I have been kidnapped.
Peter Lawrence
2016-07-02 04:23:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ciccio
Post by evergene
One of the many ways in which we differ. I couldn't distinguish one
burger from the next, unless there's some unique condiment on it.
Indeed, we differ in that my taste buds are not dead. The Habit has a
distinctive charbroiled flavor that Wendy's doesn't have, not even close.
It's not so much a charbroiled flavor, but the flavor of a beef patty seared
with high heat. It's why the beef patties from The Habit and In-N-Out taste
the same and have the same "crunchy" texture on the outside (in addition to
both using fresh — not frozen — ground beef patties).


- Peter
sf
2016-07-02 15:37:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ciccio
Post by evergene
One of the many ways in which we differ. I couldn't distinguish one
burger from the next, unless there's some unique condiment on it.
Indeed, we differ in that my taste buds are not dead. The Habit has a
distinctive charbroiled flavor that Wendy's doesn't have, not even
close. I suspected The Habit was using liquid smoke, albeit not overly
so. The manager at the one in Pleasanton, however, outright denied it to me.
My husband tried The Habit by Serramonte and was unimpressed.
Expensive burgers and it didn't deliver enough bang for the buck as
far as he was concerned. He remains a loyal In-n-Out burger patron.
--
sf
sf
2016-06-30 21:25:54 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 12:58:16 -0700, evergene
Post by evergene
That list has me wondering: if I were blindfolded and brought into
those restaurants and ate some of their food, would I (or better,
someone who actually eats at those places) be able to tell the
difference between, say, the food at Panda Express and the food at PF
Chang's
I thought PF Chang's was supposed to be an upscale sit down restaurant
that cooks food to order, not a food court steam table type like Panda
express.
--
sf
Todd Michel McComb
2016-06-30 21:28:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by sf
I thought PF Chang's was supposed to be an upscale sit down restaurant
that cooks food to order, not a food court steam table type like Panda
express.
It is. That's what makes the blind comparison potentially interesting.
I wouldn't be shocked if the food is identical.
Tim May
2016-07-01 06:13:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd Michel McComb
Post by sf
I thought PF Chang's was supposed to be an upscale sit down restaurant
that cooks food to order, not a food court steam table type like Panda
express.
It is. That's what makes the blind comparison potentially interesting.
I wouldn't be shocked if the food is identical.
I've had better Chinese food at Panda Express than at some sit-down
Chinese places. I can pretty consistently get the U.S. equivalent of
street food for about $7.50.

The turn-over is so high, with the woks being dumped into the steam
table trays very frequently, that I have never had a problem with
either cold, or soggy, or dried-out food. (I did have this problem
several times at some Mr. Chau's I went to the in the South Bay during
its "run," so to speak.)
--
Tim May
Tim May
2016-07-01 06:07:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by evergene
None in the past several years. But over a lifetime, six: Chipotle,
Wendy's, PF Chang's China Bistro, Panda Express, In-N-Out Burger,
Applebees.
That list has me wondering: if I were blindfolded and brought into
those restaurants and ate some of their food, would I (or better,
someone who actually eats at those places) be able to tell the
difference between, say, the food at Panda Express and the food at PF
Chang's, or the difference between the burgers at the many burger
joints?
I haven't been to a Pointless Fucking Chang's, and I know I-N-Out
burgers well enough to, I think, recognize them in a blind test.

Others say the "loose and sloppy" burgers of Habit and Five Guys are
similar, but as I've never been to a Habit, certainly would not be able
to tell the difference.

Inasmuch as I've been, by convenience and necssity, exposed to a lot of
Whoppers, Jumbo Jacks, McDoubles, etc., I could probably guess which
was which.

(At Wendy's I usually go for their cheapest menu, where the burgers are
more like dry sliders.)

Of the Bottom Four (in many rankings), I prefer Jack in the Box. I
least prefer Mickey D.

(I usually don't typically order the "Bacon Chipotle Bourbon" kinds of
"Six Dollar Burgers for only $8.49" at places like Carl's Jr. But I
have had some good $2.99 burgers at Carl's. I think Carl's was perhaps
the model for the "Big Kahuna Burger" in "Pulp Fiction." Maybe Sonic,
if they have them in LA where Tarantino was growing up.)

(TMI, I know, but there was a Carl's Jr. across the street from Intel's
headquarters in the 70s, at the corner of Central Distressway and
Kiely/Bowers, and inasmuch as nothing else was nearby, it was a treat
to eat there when I was working on the lab on Saturdays and Sundays.
Many good memories, actually.)
--
Tim May
Steve Pope
2016-07-01 06:45:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim May
(TMI, I know, but there was a Carl's Jr. across the street from Intel's
headquarters in the 70s, at the corner of Central Distressway and
Kiely/Bowers, and inasmuch as nothing else was nearby, it was a treat
to eat there when I was working on the lab on Saturdays and Sundays.
Many good memories, actually.)
It's still there. It's also almost still true that nothing
else is immediately nearby, the exception being a sort of deli-sandwich
and (I think) Korean place with an expansive menu, I would guess lunch
only (although I don't know that explicitly), tucked into an otherwise
industrial building north side of Walsh.

Carl's Jr. was not bad in the 70's, since back then industrial-grade
beef and other food ingredients was more recognizable as food.

S.
Tim May
2016-07-01 07:19:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Pope
Post by Tim May
(TMI, I know, but there was a Carl's Jr. across the street from Intel's
headquarters in the 70s, at the corner of Central Distressway and
Kiely/Bowers, and inasmuch as nothing else was nearby, it was a treat
to eat there when I was working on the lab on Saturdays and Sundays.
Many good memories, actually.)
It's still there. It's also almost still true that nothing
else is immediately nearby, the exception being a sort of deli-sandwich
and (I think) Korean place with an expansive menu, I would guess lunch
only (although I don't know that explicitly), tucked into an otherwise
industrial building north side of Walsh.
Carl's Jr. was not bad in the 70's, since back then industrial-grade
beef and other food ingredients was more recognizable as food.
This is a good insight. I have long-wondered if my taste in burgers
(which remain one of my favorite foods to prepare at home---for lots of
reasons) has changed a lot in 30 years or if food quality for chains
has changed.

(Mind you, I've already said I like In-N-Out.)

I can remember a dismal time for burgers when venturing away from home,
say on a road trip from the Northern Virgina area down to, say,
Richmond or Luray Caverns or up into Pennsylvania, generally meant an
endless procession of "Stuckey's" (a chain apparently similar to
Crackerbarrel) and dodgy burger places that often served-up dry, gamey
mystery meat. And on two long drives across the country from San Diego
to D.C. and back, horrible memories of terrible fast food in backwaters
off the Interstate.

Many food analysts have pointed out that the revolution of the 1960s in
fast food chains was to give some _consistency_ in fast food. While
many great little diners were probably out there, casual travellers had
almost no way to find them. And so a lot of burgers were just in
diners, some good, some made with expired meat. We survived, but
burgers on the Interstate were not something we looked forward to.

(How many travellers even to the South Bay would expect that a small
chain with plastic sheeting as window coverings would be a pretty good
place for a burger? And yet this is what Kirk's Burgers was, to those
who knew. Or Burger Pit, a mostly-gone small chain.)

So when by the late 50s my family could get good, consistent burgers at
Jack-in-the-Box (and our local one was #2 in the history of the chain,
on the shores of San Diego Bay, before Sea World was built), we went
there. And why in the early 60s, with Burger Queen and Burger Chef (two
real chains in the D.C. area....one of them even made an appearance as
an ad account in "Mad Men"), we had places where the burgers tasted
pretty good and were inexpensive.

Even by the 1980s, I thought of the chain burger places as serving
pretty decent food. Yeah, even by then I could cook a better burger at
home, with my choice of fixings, but convenience was a factor. (My
girlfriend at that time and I like to make a ritual of a Sunday dinner
"splurge" at a local Bob's Big Boy in Santa Clara. Kind of pricey for a
huge burger with iceberg lettuce salad and fries and a drink for $5.99,
but a real treat. This tells you all why I set my budget "norms" where
I did.

Enter the gourmet burger. Yeah, usually bigger and better. But at about
twice the price. I didn't even go much to the places like Kirk's in the
late 80s, as the prices were so high. (And mostly I was picking Chinese
or Thai food over burgers.

Around this time I noticed huge drop-offs in how crowded the main fast
food places were. Today, of course, it's pretty common to pass a
McDonald's and see only several cars in the parking lot (unless next to
an In-N-Out, as it's the Overflow Parking Lot) A big change from the
1960s-80s.

Today, my hunch is that labor costs dominate and everybody is forced to
use lower-quality product. The high-end burger places really can't
afford to use beef that costs them $10 a pound, so they cut corners on
the quality. When the most-uneducated burger flippper is making the
mandated minimum wave, the low-end burger places are forced into a race
to the bottom to return even a slim profit margin. And the low-end
places resort to using "reconstituted beef products."

(The same is true of KFC and other chicken places. A bucket of KFC in
the 1960s was filled with large, meaty, juicy pieces. Today,
shivelled-up pieces of mstly cartilage and skin. And with an emphasis
on "formed" patties, nuggets, and "meat-based wing products.")

It'll be interesting to see if the "robot burger places" that are being
talked about (in several cities) will be able to serve up a
better-quality burger for a good price.

Of course, unemployment of millions of burger flippers will likely be
an issue the Social Justice Warriors will be ranting about.
--
Tim May
Todd Michel McComb
2016-07-01 19:40:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim May
Today, my hunch is that labor costs dominate and everybody is
forced to use lower-quality product. The high-end burger places
really can't afford to use beef that costs them $10 a pound, so
they cut corners on the quality.
They are "forced" to reduce quality because the imperative is to
increase profits.
Steve Pope
2016-07-01 19:46:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd Michel McComb
Post by Tim May
Today, my hunch is that labor costs dominate and everybody is
forced to use lower-quality product. The high-end burger places
really can't afford to use beef that costs them $10 a pound, so
they cut corners on the quality.
They are "forced" to reduce quality because the imperative is to
increase profits.
Meat-quality disparity, or product quality disparity in general,
linearly tracks wealth disparity.

The bottom 50% consume 99% of the "pink slime".

In China, there's an entire separate official higher-quality,
melamine-free food chain for the elites.

Steve
Todd Michel McComb
2016-07-01 19:46:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Pope
In China, there's an entire separate official higher-quality,
melamine-free food chain for the elites.
That's what we'll get if we aren't careful.
Tim May
2016-07-02 05:29:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Pope
Post by Todd Michel McComb
Post by Tim May
Today, my hunch is that labor costs dominate and everybody is
forced to use lower-quality product. The high-end burger places
really can't afford to use beef that costs them $10 a pound, so
they cut corners on the quality.
They are "forced" to reduce quality because the imperative is to
increase profits.
Meat-quality disparity, or product quality disparity in general,
linearly tracks wealth disparity.
The bottom 50% consume 99% of the "pink slime".
In China, there's an entire separate official higher-quality,
melamine-free food chain for the elites.
And what's wrong with melamine?

It's just like margarine, recommended by the FDA. Same way smoking was
recommended to improve digestion.
--
Tim May
David Arnstein
2016-07-01 23:46:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim May
It'll be interesting to see if the "robot burger places" that are being
talked about (in several cities) will be able to serve up a
better-quality burger for a good price.
It will soon be possible to investigate this. Eatsa is hiring for a
shop in San Francisco, so the opening should happen soon:
http://insidescoopsf.sfgate.com/blog/2016/07/01/attention-san-francisco-robots-may-soon-be-making-your-burgers/

Shit's about to get real.
--
David Arnstein (00)
arnstein+***@pobox.com {{ }}
^^
g***@mailinator.com
2016-07-01 18:14:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Pope
Post by Tim May
(TMI, I know, but there was a Carl's Jr. across the street from Intel's
headquarters in the 70s, at the corner of Central Distressway and
Kiely/Bowers, and inasmuch as nothing else was nearby, it was a treat
to eat there when I was working on the lab on Saturdays and Sundays.
Many good memories, actually.)
It's still there. It's also almost still true that nothing
else is immediately nearby, the exception being a sort of deli-sandwich
and (I think) Korean place with an expansive menu, I would guess lunch
only (although I don't know that explicitly), tucked into an otherwise
industrial building north side of Walsh.
Carl's Jr. was not bad in the 70's, since back then industrial-grade
beef and other food ingredients was more recognizable as food.
S.
Up Bowers a bit, they're finishing construction on a new complex with a Whole Foods as anchor. Which, I'm guessing, will be vying for the title of Most Chain Restaurants in One Shopping Center.

-Gary
Steve Pope
2016-07-01 19:41:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@mailinator.com
Up Bowers a bit, they're finishing construction on a new complex with a
Whole Foods as anchor.
Yes. Although, to walk there on one's lunch break from the
Kiely/Bowers zone one faces the unpleasant prospect of
crossing over 101 and/or Central Expressway.

Up that way is also the Specialty's sandwich shop, which is not bad.

Steve
Mark Curry
2016-07-01 23:18:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Pope
Post by Tim May
(TMI, I know, but there was a Carl's Jr. across the street from Intel's
headquarters in the 70s, at the corner of Central Distressway and
Kiely/Bowers, and inasmuch as nothing else was nearby, it was a treat
to eat there when I was working on the lab on Saturdays and Sundays.
Many good memories, actually.)
It's still there. It's also almost still true that nothing
else is immediately nearby, the exception being a sort of deli-sandwich
and (I think) Korean place with an expansive menu, I would guess lunch
only (although I don't know that explicitly), tucked into an otherwise
industrial building north side of Walsh.
Sadly, the Kifer Deli (the "Korean place with an expansive menu") closed up
shop about 6 months ago. I liked their Bibimbap it was tasty and affordable at
around 8 bucks or so. Looking for a similar place nearby, and haven't
had much success. There's not much nearby.

--Mark
sms
2016-07-01 23:22:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Curry
Post by Steve Pope
Post by Tim May
(TMI, I know, but there was a Carl's Jr. across the street from Intel's
headquarters in the 70s, at the corner of Central Distressway and
Kiely/Bowers, and inasmuch as nothing else was nearby, it was a treat
to eat there when I was working on the lab on Saturdays and Sundays.
Many good memories, actually.)
It's still there. It's also almost still true that nothing
else is immediately nearby, the exception being a sort of deli-sandwich
and (I think) Korean place with an expansive menu, I would guess lunch
only (although I don't know that explicitly), tucked into an otherwise
industrial building north side of Walsh.
Sadly, the Kifer Deli (the "Korean place with an expansive menu") closed up
shop about 6 months ago. I liked their Bibimbap it was tasty and affordable at
around 8 bucks or so. Looking for a similar place nearby, and haven't
had much success. There's not much nearby.
Specialty's will be re-opening in the new center at Augustine and Bowers.
sms
2016-07-01 23:26:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@mailinator.com
Post by Steve Pope
Post by Tim May
(TMI, I know, but there was a Carl's Jr. across the street from Intel's
headquarters in the 70s, at the corner of Central Distressway and
Kiely/Bowers, and inasmuch as nothing else was nearby, it was a treat
to eat there when I was working on the lab on Saturdays and Sundays.
Many good memories, actually.)
It's still there. It's also almost still true that nothing
else is immediately nearby, the exception being a sort of deli-sandwich
and (I think) Korean place with an expansive menu, I would guess lunch
only (although I don't know that explicitly), tucked into an otherwise
industrial building north side of Walsh.
Carl's Jr. was not bad in the 70's, since back then industrial-grade
beef and other food ingredients was more recognizable as food.
S.
Up Bowers a bit, they're finishing construction on a new complex with a Whole Foods as anchor. Which, I'm guessing, will be vying for the title of Most Chain Restaurants in One Shopping Center.
My wife's office was on Augustine, behind that new complex, until two
weeks ago. Every building around her's had been razed, and the
contractors were impatiently waiting for her company to get out. At one
point they (AT&T) were jack-hammering through the floor while her
company was still in the building, running fiber under the building.

Specialty's was very popular (an old Denny's). They are going to open
again in the new center. There's also another Specialty's closer to Intel.
Tim May
2016-07-02 05:36:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by sms
My wife's office was on Augustine, behind that new complex, until two
weeks ago. Every building around her's had been razed, and the
contractors were impatiently waiting for her company to get out. At one
point they (AT&T) were jack-hammering through the floor while her
company was still in the building, running fiber under the building.
Specialty's was very popular (an old Denny's). They are going to open
again in the new center. There's also another Specialty's closer to Intel.
I was once at that Specialty's (which I think I mistakenly called a
Friendly's here) once. I was meeting some friends. I had the Minimum
Purchasable Unit, a drink. The food menu seemed to be various "bites."
Not exactly a hearty sandwich place like the Old New York Deli, or even
a 1970s-era Togo's. More like the ersatz finger food Starbucks sells.

But kind of hard to believe that area is getting a Whole Foods and a
big shopping center. When I was working for Intel in the 70s and 80s,
the whole area emptied out at night (save for the graveyard workers,
who of course didn't have time on their breaks or lunch to leave the
building).

Doesn't seem to be enough people live in the area to qualify for a
supermarket, even a Whole Foods thing.

Maybe this Whole Foods will only be staffed lightly during the day,
then heavily in the 6-9 pm period when the bro-grammers head home, then
shut down.
--
Tim May
Tak Nakamoto
2016-06-30 16:38:35 UTC
Permalink
"sms" wrote

Shopping Center with the Most Chain Restaurants

I'm working near Pacific Commons on Automall in Fremont. That shopping
center must have the most chains of any shopping center. This is the
restaurant list:

<snip>

Coldstone Creamery
Cream
<snip>

Interestingly there are no ice cream or frozen yogurt shops, and no
Burger King, McDonald's or Jack in the Box.

--------

I've never to either Coldstone or Cream but aren't they both ice cream
shops?

Tak Nakamoto
Al Eisner
2016-06-30 21:06:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by sms
Shopping Center with the Most Chain Restaurants
I'm working near Pacific Commons on Automall in Fremont. That shopping
center must have the most chains of any shopping center. This is the
<snip>
Coldstone Creamery
Cream
<snip>
Interestingly there are no ice cream or frozen yogurt shops, and no
Burger King, McDonald's or Jack in the Box.
--------
I've never to either Coldstone or Cream but aren't they both ice cream
shops?
Tak Nakamoto
Yes. Coldstone is low-quality. (It's interesting to note that over
the years how the available widespread chains have marked a decline:
from Swenson's to Baskin-Robbins and now to Coldstream.) Cream is
gimmicky, but for all I know the ice cream may be okay. There's one
on University in Palo Alto which I haven't yet worked up the enthusiasm
to try.
--
Al Eisner
San Mateo Co., CA
Tim May
2016-07-01 06:24:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Al Eisner
Yes. Coldstone is low-quality. (It's interesting to note that over
from Swenson's to Baskin-Robbins and now to Coldstream.) Cream is
gimmicky, but for all I know the ice cream may be okay. There's one
on University in Palo Alto which I haven't yet worked up the enthusiasm to try.
When I moved to Silicon Valley in 1974, Swenson's was the gold
standard. There was one on Steven's Creek Boulevard, in the Oaks
shopping center, one in downtown Palo Alto, near the Varsity Theater
(later a Borders), one at Eastridge, and several others. They closed
one-by-one and by the early 90s seemed to be gone. (A Web search a few
years ago revealed that some in Asia are still thriving....this could
echo the way Tower Records is still thriving in Japan.)

Butter pecan was my favorite. Rum raisin, too. Only once did I try one
of their big "banana split" or sundae sorts of things. Way too much
sugar!

I never considered B-R to be a serious competitor. I see various
brightly-lit B-Rs in my area, but they always seem to be empty. I think
I was last in one about 40 years ago.

As for Coldstone, I went once or twice with a friend whose 10-year-old
son wanted to go. It seemed to be built-around generically-cheap
vanilla ice cream with stuff children like. M & Ms, Cocoa Puffs,
Hershey's syrup, whatever crap chidren like. And served by high school
kids pretending to be teppan yaki chefs with cold marble plates and
iced spatulas as they flipped and folded the Count Chocula and
strawberry marshmallows and sang songs. Ghastly.
--
Tim May
David Arnstein
2016-06-30 17:01:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by sms
Pancheros
I was there recently. It was better than McDonalds, Burger King, etc.
But totally forgetable. They should rename this place Nothingburger.

I did not find any independent businesses in that shopping area. Did you?
It is disappointing. Boring old Fremont used to have lots of small time
businesses, because the rents there are relatively cheap.
--
David Arnstein (00)
arnstein+***@pobox.com {{ }}
^^
sms
2016-06-30 18:08:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Arnstein
Post by sms
Pancheros
I was there recently. It was better than McDonalds, Burger King, etc.
But totally forgetable. They should rename this place Nothingburger.
When they opened in Cupertino they had $1 burritos one day for a few
hours. I thought it was better than Chipotle.
Peter Lawrence
2016-07-01 00:34:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Arnstein
Boring old Fremont used to have lots of small time
businesses, because the rents there are relatively cheap.
It still does, including a lot of good mom & pop restaurants that are still
located in the older strip malls, like Bombay Pizza, Bob’s Giant Burgers and
Mission Burger, and Sala Thai.

What Fremont doesn't have are those trendy "Hipster" restaurants that charge
$18 for an all-organic, fair trade GMO-free cheeseburger with chopped kale
instead of lettuce. You need to head over to Oakland, Berkeley, or San
Francisco for those.


- Peter
Steve Pope
2016-07-01 00:44:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Lawrence
What Fremont doesn't have are those trendy "Hipster" restaurants that charge
$18 for an all-organic, fair trade GMO-free cheeseburger with chopped kale
instead of lettuce. You need to head over to Oakland, Berkeley, or San
Francisco for those.
I'd settle for a grass-fed burger that was otherwise inorganic/kale-free.

Tangentially kale is nowhere near the ideal salad green to go inside
a burger. Lettuce (if it's good) is better, and arugula (if it's
flavorful, not the bland variety) is for me the best.

S.
Tim May
2016-07-01 06:39:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Pope
Post by Peter Lawrence
What Fremont doesn't have are those trendy "Hipster" restaurants that charge
$18 for an all-organic, fair trade GMO-free cheeseburger with chopped kale
instead of lettuce. You need to head over to Oakland, Berkeley, or San
Francisco for those.
I'd settle for a grass-fed burger that was otherwise inorganic/kale-free.
Personally, I prefer corn-fed to grass-fed. I had ample opportunity to
taste some grass-fed steaks and burgers that some friends had acquired,
and it was too lean and too gamy for me.

Which works out well for me, as corn-fed beef is about a third the
price of grass-fed. (A hybrid is range-grazed, with corn-finishing,
which is what most "non-grass-fed" beef is these days. A good
compromise, for me at least.)
Post by Steve Pope
Tangentially kale is nowhere near the ideal salad green to go inside
a burger. Lettuce (if it's good) is better, and arugula (if it's
flavorful, not the bland variety) is for me the best.
I grow kale and romaine in my garden, but for burgers the best lettuce
is iceberg. Texture, texture, texture!
--
Tim May
Steve Pope
2016-07-01 07:32:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim May
Post by Steve Pope
I'd settle for a grass-fed burger that was otherwise inorganic/kale-free.
Personally, I prefer corn-fed to grass-fed. I had ample opportunity to
taste some grass-fed steaks and burgers that some friends had acquired,
and it was too lean and too gamy for me.
Well, a grass-fed cut of steak could easily be too lean compared
to its corn-fed equivalent. And there is something alluring about
a top-notch, corn-fed, porterhouse or T-bone.

Whereas, ground beef can include whatever fat percentage one
prefers, even if it's grass-fed ... there is plenty of fat
on a grass fed cattle, you just need to find it and toss the
right amount into the meat grinder.

I believe at those butcher shops near me that sell grass-fed
beef, you can get 80% lean and possibly 70% lean without much
trouble.

In addition, grass-fed beef stew-meat is readily available these
days. My dining partner requested an "Ernie Jr.'s" style
chile colorado, so I floured and browned the meat along with
onions and green chile, added a little vegetable stock and (this may
be cheating) just a little boxed tomato soup, then added copious
quantities of _chile molido_ of the New Mexico, Pasilla, and
Arbol subtypes. This I placed into a 350 F oven for 3 hours.
At the end, tweaking it so the sauce thickness is as desired:
perfect next to "hippie" short-grain brown rice.

As for too gamey, I think that's a matter of preference. But
I've never had grass-fed beef as gamey as venison or as
strongly-flavored as all but the mildest lamb.

Speaking of which, the Atkins Ranch boneless leg-rounds of lamb
sold at TJ's are splendid ... I season and sort-of marinade them
for an hour, rub on some yogurt, then place them under the gas broiler.
I take them out when, after some resting time, they will be medium rare.
This means ten minutes under the broiler, give or take.

Steve
Tim May
2016-07-01 08:06:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Pope
Post by Tim May
Post by Steve Pope
I'd settle for a grass-fed burger that was otherwise inorganic/kale-free.
Personally, I prefer corn-fed to grass-fed. I had ample opportunity to
taste some grass-fed steaks and burgers that some friends had acquired,
and it was too lean and too gamy for me.
Well, a grass-fed cut of steak could easily be too lean compared
to its corn-fed equivalent. And there is something alluring about
a top-notch, corn-fed, porterhouse or T-bone.
Or a rib-eye, my go-to steak. (And here, I find the Costco "Prime" to
be _too_ fatty, even for me, so I usually go for "Choice," which is
fatty enough.)

A friend of mine, one of the ones with a "side of grass-fed cow" in the
freezer, likes to cook her rib-eyes "blue." And she does it cast iron,
something she credits me with telling her about. (She and her boyfriend
had been doing the whole Weber grill thing, then the charcoal thing,
but then I described how an inexpensive 10-inch Lodge pan, for under
$20, does it spectacularly well. She's been doing her steaks in cast
iron every since.)

But the "blue" (rare) leaves the fat cap in the center of the rib-eye
unmelted. I think it was Kenji Lopez-Alt ("The Food Lab") who pointed
out that a fatty rib-eye needs to be done to MR (mid-rare, medium-rare)
so as to at least partially melt this fat cap. A couple of times at her
place, at a 4 a.m. impromptu steak cooking, I asked for my rib-eye to
have another slight period in the pan. Probably for this reason, to
melt more of the fat cap.

(As for eating fat, this is a huge subject. It looks increasingly like
the standard advice from around 1974 to around 1998 to "avoid fats,
avoid eggs, or at least eat only egg whites, avoid bacon, eat only
margarine" was grotesquely wrong. Worse, the emphasis on "low fat"
meant more sugars and carb in most "low fat" items. Like I said, a huge
and contentious issuu. For myself, I try to avoid breads, pastas, and
other mostly-carb foods. Call it Paleo, low it low-glycemic index food
avoidance, call it Atkins, call it the Mediterranean diet, call it what
most of our ancestors ate prior to the Great Inundation of around
12000-9000 years ago. Most of our ancestors lived in the huge coastal
plains and estuaries which are now about 200-300 feet below current sea
levels. Think about what they were eating: it's going to look like a
lot of fish, shellfish, coastal birds, game birds, some reeeds and wild
rice, and other foods pretty typical of coastal regions today. Except
on a much larger scale. Use Google Earth to look at where "dry or
mostly dry land" was in the times from 9000 years ago to about 150,000
years ago. Our forebears were not "cave men," they were coastal
dwellers almost exclusively. We find their artifacts up the river
valleys for some obvious reasons.....the stuff 200-300 feet below
current sea level is mostly gone. It was the discovery of ruins in
caves 200-300 deep off the cast of Africa and other places that has
opened up this whole field. And imagine what this means for the whole
Persian Gulf and Mediterranean? Look at Google Earth for what was above
sea level prior to around 9000 years ago.)
Post by Steve Pope
Whereas, ground beef can include whatever fat percentage one
prefers, even if it's grass-fed ... there is plenty of fat
on a grass fed cattle, you just need to find it and toss the
right amount into the meat grinder.
I have the meat grinder attachment to my KitchenAid unit, but have not
ever used it. I should start.

Meanwhile, I find places like Costco sell on-site-ground 70-30 at a
good price. Plenty of fat.

(Consistent with the above points, I'm eating more sausage of various kinds.)

Arbol subtypes. This I placed into a 350 F oven for 3 hours.
Post by Steve Pope
perfect next to "hippie" short-grain brown rice.
I try to sub-in brown rice whenever possible. Crunchier, plus "not
pure starch," as the outer parts are preserved.
--
Tim May
Steve Pope
2016-07-01 10:31:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim May
A friend of mine, one of the ones with a "side of grass-fed cow" in the
freezer, likes to cook her rib-eyes "blue." And she does it cast iron,
something she credits me with telling her about. (She and her boyfriend
had been doing the whole Weber grill thing, then the charcoal thing,
but then I described how an inexpensive 10-inch Lodge pan, for under
$20, does it spectacularly well. She's been doing her steaks in cast
iron every since.)
But the "blue" (rare) leaves the fat cap in the center of the rib-eye
unmelted. I think it was Kenji Lopez-Alt ("The Food Lab") who pointed
out that a fatty rib-eye needs to be done to MR (mid-rare, medium-rare)
so as to at least partially melt this fat cap. A couple of times at her
place, at a 4 a.m. impromptu steak cooking, I asked for my rib-eye to
have another slight period in the pan. Probably for this reason, to
melt more of the fat cap.
Well. When I have a rib-eye, I want it rare. So I take the raw
steak, grass-fed or conventional, and I carefully excise the
inner fat-cap as well as the outer rings and strands of fat,
and I obtain a good result.

S.
Julian Macassey
2016-07-01 15:15:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim May
A friend of mine, one of the ones with a "side of grass-fed cow" in the
freezer,
If you have the freezer space and butchering skills,
buying meat on the hook is the way to go. You get meat with some
history, you can know the farmer, it is very cheap compared to
butchered meat.

The big problem is the logistics, getting the meat from
the slaughterhouse, or farm and getting it in a freezer.
Post by Tim May
(As for eating fat, this is a huge subject. It looks increasingly like
the standard advice from around 1974 to around 1998 to "avoid fats,
avoid eggs, or at least eat only egg whites, avoid bacon, eat only
margarine" was grotesquely wrong. Worse, the emphasis on "low fat"
meant more sugars and carb in most "low fat" items. Like I said, a huge
and contentious issuu.
My mother went to her grave at 92 convinced that all the
"Fat is bad!" hysteria was nonsense. As I continue to point out,
that's where the flavour is.

As for margerine, in the early 1970s my mother was
talking about the horrors of margerine. She said that the
transfats seperated in the stomache and caused problems. She
cited a Dutch study that looked into this. Somehow this research
didn't really see the light of day.
Post by Tim May
I have the meat grinder attachment to my KitchenAid unit, but have not
ever used it. I should start.
I have one, with the sausage tubes. I make my own sausage
now and again.
Post by Tim May
Meanwhile, I find places like Costco sell on-site-ground 70-30 at a
good price. Plenty of fat.
(Consistent with the above points, I'm eating more sausage of various kinds.)
The classic British banger contains breadcrumbs and
various blood sausages contain grains, the British blood pudding
Post by Tim May
I try to sub-in brown rice whenever possible. Crunchier, plus "not
pure starch," as the outer parts are preserved.
Soaking brown rice before cooking makes it softer.
--
It has always been recognized that this way of interrogating men, by putting
them to torture, produces nothing worthwhile. - Napoléon Bonaparte
Julian Macassey
2016-07-01 14:38:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim May
Post by Steve Pope
I'd settle for a grass-fed burger that was otherwise inorganic/kale-free.
Personally, I prefer corn-fed to grass-fed. I had ample opportunity to
taste some grass-fed steaks and burgers that some friends had acquired,
and it was too lean and too gamy for me.
The gamy flavour is actually the flavour of beef. Most
people in the US are not familiar with the flavour of meat, be it
chicken or beef. Factory raised (usually on maize) meat is not
what the rest of the world eats.

For that true paleo experience, pasture raised is the way
to go.
--
Germany is known as 'the land where Israelis learned their manners'.
- P. J. O'Rourke
evergene
2016-07-01 15:07:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Julian Macassey
The gamy flavour is actually the flavour of beef. Most
people in the US are not familiar with the flavour of meat, be it
chicken or beef. Factory raised (usually on maize) meat is not
what the rest of the world eats.
Reminds me of trying to find real mutton around here. It's not hard to
find decent lamb, and "lamb" that's a little older than true lamb. But
I've yet to find real mutton anywhere in SF. I guess a good Basque
restaurant would have mutton dishes, but local butchers don't carry it
and "can't" (said the one I asked) order it.

I need to make friends with a shepherdess somewhere in Marin.
Post by Julian Macassey
For that true paleo experience, pasture raised is the way
to go.
Pastured mammoth!
Steve Pope
2016-07-01 19:37:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by evergene
Reminds me of trying to find real mutton around here. It's not hard to
find decent lamb, and "lamb" that's a little older than true lamb. But
I've yet to find real mutton anywhere in SF.
I believe above a certain age, sheep can no longer enter the
food chain out of concern that one of the various protein-misfolding
disorders might again jump species.

Steve
Tim May
2016-07-02 05:39:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Pope
Post by evergene
Reminds me of trying to find real mutton around here. It's not hard to
find decent lamb, and "lamb" that's a little older than true lamb. But
I've yet to find real mutton anywhere in SF.
I believe above a certain age, sheep can no longer enter the
food chain out of concern that one of the various protein-misfolding
disorders might again jump species.
You present as a bro, dude!

That's like somethings some crazy cow would say.
--
Tim May
Todd Michel McComb
2016-07-01 19:44:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim May
Personally, I prefer corn-fed to grass-fed. I had ample opportunity to
taste some grass-fed steaks and burgers that some friends had acquired,
and it was too lean and too gamy for me.
The grass fed beef has really grown on me. I don't think that's
all me. I think they've made some tweaks to how they do the
husbandry, etc.
Tim May
2016-07-02 05:42:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Todd Michel McComb
Post by Tim May
Personally, I prefer corn-fed to grass-fed. I had ample opportunity to
taste some grass-fed steaks and burgers that some friends had acquired,
and it was too lean and too gamy for me.
The grass fed beef has really grown on me. I don't think that's
all me. I think they've made some tweaks to how they do the
husbandry, etc.
Could be. A read a book a few years ago called "Steak" where the guy
tried dozens of steaks all around the world.

He mentioned variations in gaminess in places he visited.

(I recall his favorite was a more-traditional corn-finished steak in a
place in Oklahoma or thereabouts.)

I expect that if grass-fed grows in popularity there will be the
equivalent of "terroires" in taste/gaminess.
--
Tim May
Tim May
2016-07-01 06:35:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Lawrence
Post by David Arnstein
Boring old Fremont used to have lots of small time
businesses, because the rents there are relatively cheap.
It still does, including a lot of good mom & pop restaurants that are
still located in the older strip malls, like Bombay Pizza, Bob’s Giant
Burgers and Mission Burger, and Sala Thai.
What Fremont doesn't have are those trendy "Hipster" restaurants that
charge $18 for an all-organic, fair trade GMO-free cheeseburger with
chopped kale instead of lettuce. You need to head over to Oakland,
Berkeley, or San Francisco for those.
I thought Shallow Alto also had something like this? "Chez Phranc," or
was that the lesbian club that Phranc performed at?

"What the world needs is a good $20 hot dog!" ($4.50 gratuity
automatically added. Further 20% tip suggested.)

(Oh, wait, I guess even Pinko Alto has some price elasticity limits,
even if the casings are elastic.)

BTW, after the Caspers thread, I've since bought 3 of the 16oz packs.
Enjoyed them all.

But at a fairly pricey $7 a pound for hot dogs, I decided to do a taste
comparison with a package of 32 ounches of "Bar-S" hot dogts for
something like $2.99, maybe $3.99.

I microwaved one and put it on a potato roll (Safeway Signature
brand....quite good....moist).

I ate two bites and threw it away. I should've done a comparison with
Hebrew National, which I remember to be pretty good. And maybe with
whatever Costco is now pushing.

But so far, I am liking these "Caspers" dogs. Makes for a very quick to
prepare refueling. And the fat and such in hot dogs is now considered
to be a Good Thing in the paleo/etc./ketogenic crowd. The
nitrites/ates, if any, and preservatives, if any, may be a concern.
I'll look into this later.
--
Tim May
Peter Lawrence
2016-07-01 08:10:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Lawrence
Post by David Arnstein
Boring old Fremont used to have lots of small time
businesses, because the rents there are relatively cheap.
It still does, including a lot of good mom & pop restaurants that are
still located in the older strip malls, like Bombay Pizza, Bob’s Giant
Burgers and Mission Burger, and Sala Thai.
What Fremont doesn't have are those trendy "Hipster" restaurants that
charge $18 for an all-organic, fair trade GMO-free cheeseburger with
chopped kale instead of lettuce. You need to head over to Oakland,
Berkeley, or San Francisco for those.
I thought Shallow Alto also had something like this? "Chez Phranc," or was
that the lesbian club that Phranc performed at?
"What the world needs is a good $20 hot dog!" ($4.50 gratuity automatically
added. Further 20% tip suggested.)
(Oh, wait, I guess even Pinko Alto has some price elasticity limits, even if
the casings are elastic.)
Palo Alto has its share of overpriced restaurants (in fact almost all the
restaurants in Palo Alto are overpriced, but besides the two Philz Coffee
shops, there aren't to many food (or coffee) establishments where "hipsters"
tend to congregate in Palo Alto. Its overpriced restaurants mainly tend to
cater to venture capitalists and the older demographic of Palo Alto who seem
to be somewhat more "traditional" and conservative in their food tastes.
Hence, the failure of Chez Francs to catch on.


- Peter
Tim May
2016-07-01 08:40:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Lawrence
Palo Alto has its share of overpriced restaurants (in fact almost all
the restaurants in Palo Alto are overpriced, but besides the two Philz
Coffee shops, there aren't to many food (or coffee) establishments
where "hipsters" tend to congregate in Palo Alto. Its overpriced
restaurants mainly tend to cater to venture capitalists and the older
demographic of Palo Alto who seem to be somewhat more "traditional" and
conservative in their food tastes. Hence, the failure of Chez Francs to
catch on.
I only get over to the Valley ever other month or so these days, but
some of us who gather to talk about crypto, BitCoin, BlockChain,
Ethereum, etc., have been doing it for most of the past dozen years at
places in Mountain View, notably Dana Street Coffee Company for several
years and then, later, upstairs at the Red Rock. Years earlier, we
mostly met all afternoon on Saturdays at corporate open areas and then
adjourned for Chinese or Thai for supper.

Of course, many of us are/were "value eaters." And we had people
ranging from being wealthy to being poor students, or worse. Naturally
we did not go to expensive places to have some sucker pay for everyone
elese. It was better to "want less, suffer less." I attended not a
single "VC meal" at whatever trendy places they like. (A girlfriend
once wanted, back in the 80s, to go to "The Snake and the Peacock," or
some name like that, and it was just "meh." Except, I had to pay for
it. I just like to eat at pho places, the Village Deli near Stanford,
and the inestimable Liddicoat's on University Avenue back in the day.

Often after several hours's worth of ranting about math and physics and
programming and BitTorrent and Nick's crazy ideas, and politics and
all, we'd adjourn to one of the many good Vietnnames, Chinese, Indian,
Thai, Mexican or even more oddball places. (It was during my active
involvement in this weekly discussion group that we often ended up at
Hunan Spice, as I think it was called....down near the bottom of
Castro.)

The best tmes were those when some talk at Stanford about functional
programming or about how "ER = EPR" or the LIGO black holes discovery
kicked things off earlier in the afternoon.

Fun times. My main interest in dining, actually.
--
Tim May
sf
2016-06-30 21:14:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by sms
Shopping Center with the Most Chain Restaurants
I'm working near Pacific Commons on Automall in Fremont. That shopping
center must have the most chains of any shopping center.
Automall is a reflection of the general lack of decent restaurants in
Fremont.
--
sf
Ciccio
2016-06-30 23:04:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by sf
Post by sms
Shopping Center with the Most Chain Restaurants
I'm working near Pacific Commons on Automall in Fremont. That shopping
center must have the most chains of any shopping center.
Automall is a reflection of the general lack of decent restaurants in
Fremont.
"General" being the operative term. Two to which I've gone and found to
be very good are: Papillon (3x) and Massimo's (50+x). As can be gathered
from my returning, I really recommend them.

Ciccio
--
If you ever hear me ordering "decaf" coffee,
I am signaling that I have been kidnapped.
sf
2016-07-01 01:30:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ciccio
Post by sf
Post by sms
Shopping Center with the Most Chain Restaurants
I'm working near Pacific Commons on Automall in Fremont. That shopping
center must have the most chains of any shopping center.
Automall is a reflection of the general lack of decent restaurants in
Fremont.
"General" being the operative term. Two to which I've gone and found to
be very good are: Papillon (3x) and Massimo's (50+x). As can be gathered
from my returning, I really recommend them.
I know for sure that my son and wife have tried Massimo's and they
thought the food didn't live up to the prices. I'm pretty sure I
asked about Papillon and got a thumbs down on that one too.
--
sf
Ciccio
2016-07-02 01:05:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by sf
Post by Ciccio
Post by sf
Post by sms
Shopping Center with the Most Chain Restaurants
I'm working near Pacific Commons on Automall in Fremont. That shopping
center must have the most chains of any shopping center.
Automall is a reflection of the general lack of decent restaurants in
Fremont.
"General" being the operative term. Two to which I've gone and found to
be very good are: Papillon (3x) and Massimo's (50+x). As can be gathered
from my returning, I really recommend them.
I know for sure that my son and wife have tried Massimo's and they
thought the food didn't live up to the prices. I'm pretty sure I
asked about Papillon and got a thumbs down on that one too.
I've been told some negatives about Papillon.

About 30 years (50+x) of going to Massimo's, however, neither I nor
anybody I've been with has had a gripe. The desserts there are so damn,
too damn, good. I have NEVER had better tiramisu whether homemade or in
a restaurant or even Italian bakeries including the SF paragons:
Dianda's, Victoria's or Stella's. And the service is superb whether it's
a intimate meal, large groups or even up to banquets I've attended. And
you know how sensitive I am to being overcharged, yet I've never felt
overcharged at Massimo's.

Ciccio
--
If you ever hear me ordering "decaf" coffee,
I am signaling that I have been kidnapped.
sf
2016-07-02 15:35:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ciccio
Post by sf
Post by Ciccio
Post by sf
Post by sms
Shopping Center with the Most Chain Restaurants
I'm working near Pacific Commons on Automall in Fremont. That shopping
center must have the most chains of any shopping center.
Automall is a reflection of the general lack of decent restaurants in
Fremont.
"General" being the operative term. Two to which I've gone and found to
be very good are: Papillon (3x) and Massimo's (50+x). As can be gathered
from my returning, I really recommend them.
I know for sure that my son and wife have tried Massimo's and they
thought the food didn't live up to the prices. I'm pretty sure I
asked about Papillon and got a thumbs down on that one too.
I've been told some negatives about Papillon.
About 30 years (50+x) of going to Massimo's, however, neither I nor
anybody I've been with has had a gripe. The desserts there are so damn,
too damn, good. I have NEVER had better tiramisu whether homemade or in
Dianda's, Victoria's or Stella's. And the service is superb whether it's
a intimate meal, large groups or even up to banquets I've attended. And
you know how sensitive I am to being overcharged, yet I've never felt
overcharged at Massimo's.
I think eating at Massimo's was like dining at the old Joe's of
Westlake and expecting it to meet North Beach (the restaurant)
standards. It simply didn't measure up, no matter how rabid the
regulars are about it. Some people like/prefer the old heavy style of
SF Italian, others want the fresher, lighter, modern style. It's old
vs new and they wanted new.

We love Westlake Joe's now that everything has been revamped and the
menu lightened up - but there are many who don't. They complain about
the European style cultured butter. Yes! They insist it's margarine.
I say if you don't like the butter, ask for olive oil. *That's*
Italian. They even complain about the garlic bread. Who orders
garlic bread in a restaurant? If they don't like Joe's, there's
always Val's and Bertolucci's where they can still order old
fashioned, heavy SF Italian food at the same price as Original Joe's
of Westlake. Unfortunately, there's no alternative style in Fremont.
--
sf
Ciccio
2016-07-02 17:28:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by sf
I think eating at Massimo's was like dining at the old Joe's of
Westlake and expecting it to meet North Beach (the restaurant)
standards. It simply didn't measure up, no matter how rabid the
regulars are about it. Some people like/prefer the old heavy style of
SF Italian, others want the fresher, lighter, modern style. It's old
vs new and they wanted new.
Old vs. new Italin-American aren't mutually exclusive to my wants, I
enjoy both. It's just that the old styled are sparse and becoming
sparser. That's why when there's a good one like Massimo's, those of us
who like such really appreciate it. I was born and raised in North Beach
and the quality of Massimo's would have fit right in with the good ones.
Indeed, its tiramisu surpasses any I've had in SF or anyplace else.

For Fremont diners who want the newer style there's, say, Strizzi's,
etc. Of course the newer style Italian-American places are abundant
throughout the BA and it's likely there's one close to anybody's home,
so I don't need to travel to Fremont for the newer style. I do, however,
travel about 30 miles each way to Massimo's several times per year.

Ciccio
--
If you ever hear me ordering "decaf" coffee,
I am signaling that I have been kidnapped.
Steve Pope
2016-07-02 17:47:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ciccio
Old vs. new Italin-American aren't mutually exclusive to my wants, I
enjoy both. It's just that the old styled are sparse and becoming
sparser. That's why when there's a good one like Massimo's, those of us
who like such really appreciate it. I was born and raised in North Beach
and the quality of Massimo's would have fit right in with the good ones.
Indeed, its tiramisu surpasses any I've had in SF or anyplace else.
Decades ago I would like going to Little Joe's. I think it went
down not so much because new Italian-American displaced it, but
that the ingredient quality consistent with their menu and pricing
plummeted.

Steve
Ciccio
2016-07-02 19:10:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Pope
Decades ago I would like going to Little Joe's.
Oh sure, a good place back in the day, owned by a Calabrese name Frank.

I think it went
Post by Steve Pope
down not so much because new Italian-American displaced it, but
that the ingredient quality consistent with their menu and pricing
plummeted.
Francesco's a long time(since late 60s) east bay icon of that genre
suffered that fate and closed earlier this year. About 20 years ago a
friend died and he had in his last instructions that the banquet after
his funeral be paid for by his estate and it be at Francesco's. He also
had set forth the menu. It did a good job of it.

Ciccio
--
If you ever hear me ordering "decaf" coffee,
I am signaling that I have been kidnapped.
sf
2016-07-02 19:40:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ciccio
For Fremont diners who want the newer style there's, say, Strizzi's,
etc. Of course the newer style Italian-American places are abundant
throughout the BA and it's likely there's one close to anybody's home,
so I don't need to travel to Fremont for the newer style. I do, however,
travel about 30 miles each way to Massimo's several times per year.
Thanks, I'll ask them if they've been to Stizzi's.
--
sf
Ciccio
2016-07-02 23:31:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by sf
Post by Ciccio
For Fremont diners who want the newer style there's, say, Strizzi's,
etc. Of course the newer style Italian-American places are abundant
throughout the BA and it's likely there's one close to anybody's home,
so I don't need to travel to Fremont for the newer style. I do, however,
travel about 30 miles each way to Massimo's several times per year.
Thanks, I'll ask them if they've been to Stizzi's.
There are three in the general area, one each in Fremont, Pleasanton,
and Livermore. Their menu is mostly pasta, so I only go along there with
others to get along. I very seldom go out for pasta on my own accord,
but Strizzi's is popular in the area.

Ciccio
--
If you ever hear me ordering "decaf" coffee,
I am signaling that I have been kidnapped.
sf
2016-07-03 03:19:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ciccio
Post by sf
Post by Ciccio
For Fremont diners who want the newer style there's, say, Strizzi's,
etc. Of course the newer style Italian-American places are abundant
throughout the BA and it's likely there's one close to anybody's home,
so I don't need to travel to Fremont for the newer style. I do, however,
travel about 30 miles each way to Massimo's several times per year.
Thanks, I'll ask them if they've been to Stizzi's.
There are three in the general area, one each in Fremont, Pleasanton,
and Livermore. Their menu is mostly pasta, so I only go along there with
others to get along. I very seldom go out for pasta on my own accord,
but Strizzi's is popular in the area.
I saw menu items that said wood grilled, that's a lie?
--
sf
Ciccio
2016-07-03 06:43:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by sf
Post by Ciccio
Post by sf
Post by Ciccio
For Fremont diners who want the newer style there's, say, Strizzi's,
etc. Of course the newer style Italian-American places are abundant
throughout the BA and it's likely there's one close to anybody's home,
so I don't need to travel to Fremont for the newer style. I do, however,
travel about 30 miles each way to Massimo's several times per year.
Thanks, I'll ask them if they've been to Stizzi's.
There are three in the general area, one each in Fremont, Pleasanton,
and Livermore. Their menu is mostly pasta, so I only go along there with
others to get along. I very seldom go out for pasta on my own accord,
but Strizzi's is popular in the area.
I saw menu items that said wood grilled, that's a lie?
A lie? I don't think so. It's mostly pasta, but I think I had some
chicken there that could have been wood grilled.

Ciccio
--
If you ever hear me ordering "decaf" coffee,
I am signaling that I have been kidnapped.
Tim May
2016-07-01 05:56:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by sms
Shopping Center with the Most Chain Restaurants
I'm working near Pacific Commons on Automall in Fremont. That shopping
center must have the most chains of any shopping center. This is the
Applebees (1 time, never again!
Bennigan's
Blaze Pizza
Bowl of Heaven
Buffalo Wild Wings
Claim Jumper (1 time, in Alexandria, Virginia, high school reunion in 2000)
Coldstone Creamery (1 time, while visiting a friend and his middle
school son wanted to go there)
Cream
Dickey's BBQ
Dish 'N Dash
Firehouse Subs
Five Guys Burgers & Fries (1 time, just to try out the new Capitola
store....overpriced, sloppy, no place to sit)
In-N-Out Burger (about 30-50 times since my brother taught me about
them in the LA area, circa 1990)
Jamba Juice (1 time. Overpriced juice.)
Krispy Kreme (2 times, when friends wanted to stop off after our lunch)
Little Mad Fish 2 (this "2" is not my count)
Market Broiler
Ono Hawaiian BBQ
Pancheros
Panda Express (about 10-15 times, as one is fairly nearby in Capitola)
Panera Bread
PF Chang's China Bistro
Rubio's
Starbucks (inside Target) (2-3 times, with friends. Sometimes I get a
chai, sometimes nothing)
Tapioca Express
The Habit Burger Grill (never, though the Habit started in Isla Vista
around the same time I did, in 1970)
The Kebab Shop
The Prolific Oven
Wingstop
So, only In-N-Out and Panda show up on my list of "fairly often"
places. A bunch of places I visited only once or went a few times for a
drink with friends.)

I estimate my total to be about 9 in total, 7 if drink-only places are
excluded. 6 if drinks and donuts are excluded.

Some of these places listed above I would probably try if any of them
were near me.
Post by sms
Interestingly there are no ice cream or frozen yogurt shops, and no
Burger King, McDonald's or Jack in the Box.
The lowest-ranked burger chains rarely move into a mega-mall that has
In-N-Out, Five Guys, etc. As many of us have noted, a McD or Burger
King across the street or corner from an In-N-Out is more properly
called "The overflow parking lot."
--
Tim May
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