100 Things Restaurant Staffers Should Never Do (Part 1)

[Ciccio]

100 Things Restaurant Staffers Should Never Do (Part 1)

http://tinyurl.com/yfwvrpy

I agree with everything listed in the first 50. If, however, I had to
pick JUST one that would cause me to leave no tip, it would be: "36.
Never reek from perfume or cigarettes. People want to smell the food
and beverage." Especially, if the stench of the perfume or cologne
lingers after the food server departs.

Ciccio

[Pete Fraser]

Post by Ciccio
If, however, I had to
pick JUST one that would cause me to leave no tip, it would be: "36.
Never reek from perfume or cigarettes. People want to smell the food
and beverage."

Agreed. My second would be:

40. Never say, "Good choice," implying that other choices are bad.


I don't know why, but that just annoys me.

[Todd Michel McComb]

Post by Pete Fraser
40. Never say, "Good choice," implying that other choices are bad.

Interesting. I just assume that people who say that say it no
matter what you pick.

[Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq.]

Post by Ciccio
100 Things Restaurant Staffers Should Never Do (Part 1)
http://tinyurl.com/yfwvrpy
I agree with everything listed in the first 50. If, however, I had to
pick JUST one that would cause me to leave no tip, it would be: "36.
Never reek from perfume or cigarettes. People want to smell the food
and beverage." Especially, if the stench of the perfume or cologne
lingers after the food server departs.
Ciccio

I agree, i have left places cause of the customers perfumes, tobacco or
behavior but what about the opposite?

I almost complemented an older woman yesterday on her very nice, subtle,
ephemeral, delicate, light floral perfume. She was sitting to one side
of me at another outdoor table.

I didn't say anything to her about it even though i wanted to cause the
only thing that kept popping into my mind was David Letterman's oft
reiterated "don't you smell good!" and that would have been
inappropriate, only as i come to type this do i realize i should have
just briefly complemented her on the lovely perfume and asked its name?

I, of course, know better than to ask a young woman such a question,
however delicately and politely phrased but this was a middle aged
conservatively dressed "church lady" type, hat gloves, pearls the whole
schtick.

And even though i just happened, purely by accident, to be in a suit and
tie (instead of shorts, T and flip flops:) i felt it would have been
intrusive in such a setting to have spoken to her about how she smells.
Even as a complement.

[Todd Michel McComb]

Post by Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq.
I, of course, know better than to ask a young woman such a question,

I don't know your age, but men above a certain age can ask young
women questions like this without backlash.

[axlq]

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq.
I, of course, know better than to ask a young woman such a question,

I don't know your age, but men above a certain age can ask young
women questions like this without backlash.

Up to a point. "Hello young lady. Your perfume really turns me
on. May I ask what it is? And have you ever seen a grown man naked?"

I think a younger man could more easily get away with that than an
older man. The nearer her age, the easier.

-A

[Todd Michel McComb]

Post by axlq
Up to a point. "Hello young lady. Your perfume really turns me
on. May I ask what it is? And have you ever seen a grown man naked?"

That's a pretty strange question, but you might be surprised. Many
of my friends are in the 60+ range, and I've seen them ask some
rather personal questions of young women without any pushback at
all.

[Stef]

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by axlq
Up to a point. "Hello young lady. Your perfume really turns me
on. May I ask what it is? And have you ever seen a grown man naked?"

That's a pretty strange question, but you might be surprised. Many
of my friends are in the 60+ range, and I've seen them ask some
rather personal questions of young women without any pushback at
all.

I think it's rude and it annoys me, but I don't "push back" when it's
someone considerably older than me because I try not to meet rudeness
with more rudeness.
--
Stef ** ***@cat-and-dragon.com **
** cat-and-dragon.com/stef ** firecat.livejournal.com **
**
A cat and his owner see a relationship counselor: "He doesn't want you
to run the vacuum cleaner or go out on dates." -- Nicole Hollander

[Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq.]

Post by Stef

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by axlq
Up to a point. "Hello young lady. Your perfume really turns me
on. May I ask what it is? And have you ever seen a grown man naked?"

That's a pretty strange question, but you might be surprised. Many
of my friends are in the 60+ range, and I've seen them ask some
rather personal questions of young women without any pushback at
all.

I think it's rude and it annoys me, but I don't "push back" when it's
someone considerably older than me because I try not to meet rudeness
with more rudeness.
--
Stef

It never ceases to amaze me how many young females will take a
completely innocuous question as an attempt to flirt with them or worse.

I was in the cafe med in Berkeley once back in the day when it actually
got crowded and i asked a single young woman if i might sit down at the
table she was sitting by herself at.

She rudely snapped back at me that she was not "not interested!" i did
not inquire as to precisely what she was "not interested!" in but rather
took my cup of coffee over to the counter until such time as a table
became available.

And that is just one of the incidents like it i can recall.

Course sometimes males are even worse. Some guys all you have to do is
look at them and they immediately think the worst.

[Todd Michel McComb]

Post by Stef
I think it's rude and it annoys me, but I don't "push back" when
it's someone considerably older than me because I try not to meet
rudeness with more rudeness.

Do you laugh and offer more info than was requested?

Not to be too presumptuous, but I don't think you're in the age
range I was thinking of.

[Ciccio]

Post by axlq

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq.
I, of course, know better than to ask a young woman such a question,

I don't know your age, but men above a certain age can ask young
women questions like this without backlash.

Up to a point. "Hello young lady. Your perfume really turns me
on. May I ask what it is? And have you ever seen a grown man naked?"
I think a younger man could more easily get away with that than an
older man. The nearer her age, the easier.

If it's there is no motive of flirting or a pick-up line, but a
genuine compliment, then it's easy... 'That's nice perfume you're
wearing, what is it? I'd like to buy some for my wife/poly partner/
S.O./life partner, etc., to try,"

Ciccio

[Todd Michel McComb]

I'd like to buy some for my wife/poly partner/S.O./life partner,
etc., to try,"

Thank you for being so inclusive with your example.

[Peter Lawrence]

Post by Ciccio
If it's there is no motive of flirting or a pick-up line, but a
genuine compliment, then it's easy... 'That's nice perfume you're
wearing, what is it?

That's still a tad bit forward.

In polite company the question would be phrased something like this:

"That's a nice perfume you're wearing, may I ask what it is?"

It's important to note that some ladies rather not reveal what perfume
they're using to keep it from becoming too popular.

:)

- Peter

[Ciccio]

Post by Peter Lawrence

Post by Ciccio
If it's there is no motive of flirting or a pick-up line, but a
genuine compliment, then it's easy... 'That's nice perfume you're
wearing, what is it?

That's still a tad bit forward.
"That's a nice perfume you're wearing, may I ask what it is?"

That one is OK too. My statement implied: "or word to that effect."

Post by Peter Lawrence
It's important to note that some ladies rather not reveal what perfume
they're using to keep it from becoming too popular.
:)

I dated one of those ONCE.

Ciccio

[Steve Fenwick]

In article

Post by Ciccio

Post by Peter Lawrence

Post by Ciccio
If it's there is no motive of flirting or a pick-up line, but a
genuine compliment, then it's easy... 'That's nice perfume you're
wearing, what is it?

That's still a tad bit forward.
"That's a nice perfume you're wearing, may I ask what it is?"

That one is OK too. My statement implied: "or word to that effect."

Post by Peter Lawrence
It's important to note that some ladies rather not reveal what perfume
they're using to keep it from becoming too popular.
:)

I dated one of those ONCE.
Ciccio

Odd. The ones I know who are enthusiasts about perfume will talk about
it incessantly to any and all who care to listen.

Steve

[Peter Lawrence]

Post by Steve Fenwick
In article

Post by Ciccio

Post by Peter Lawrence

Post by Ciccio
If it's there is no motive of flirting or a pick-up line, but a
genuine compliment, then it's easy... 'That's nice perfume you're
wearing, what is it?

That's still a tad bit forward.
"That's a nice perfume you're wearing, may I ask what it is?"

That one is OK too. My statement implied: "or word to that effect."

Post by Peter Lawrence
It's important to note that some ladies would rather not reveal what
perfume they're using to keep it from becoming too popular.
:)

I dated one of those ONCE.
Ciccio

Odd. The ones I know who are enthusiasts about perfume will talk about
it incessantly to any and all who care to listen.
Steve

I've known both types. Both types seem to be common.


- Peter

[Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq.]

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq.
I, of course, know better than to ask a young woman such a question,

I don't know your age, but men above a certain age can ask young
women questions like this without backlash.

Hmmmm....seems intrusive to me, bordering on rude. At least Letterman
has the excuse of being an entertainer, he is supposed to be amusing or
at least entertaining.

[spamtrap1888]

Post by Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq.
I, of course, know better than to ask a young woman such a question,
however delicately and politely phrased but this was a middle aged
conservatively dressed "church lady" type, hat gloves, pearls the whole
schtick.

I once made the mistake of complementing a middle-aged conservatively
dressed "church lady" type co-worker on her attire, and had a visit
from personnel for my trouble. Lady I am not hitting on you -- you are
too old for me.

[Peter Lawrence]

Post by spamtrap1888

Post by Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq.
I, of course, know better than to ask a young woman such a question,
however delicately and politely phrased but this was a middle aged
conservatively dressed "church lady" type, hat gloves, pearls the whole
schtick.

I once made the mistake of complementing a middle-aged conservatively
dressed "church lady" type co-worker on her attire, and had a visit
from personnel for my trouble. Lady I am not hitting on you -- you are
too old for me.

A former boss of mine made the opposite mistake. He made an unflattering
remark about the attire of a female co-worker. He ended up with the same
result as you: a visit from someone from our company's HR department.


- Peter

[Tim]

Post by Peter Lawrence

Post by spamtrap1888

Post by Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq.
I, of course, know better than to ask a young woman such a question,
however delicately and politely phrased but this was a middle aged
conservatively dressed "church lady" type, hat gloves, pearls the whole
schtick.

I once made the mistake of complementing a middle-aged conservatively
dressed "church lady" type co-worker on her attire, and had a visit
from personnel for my trouble. Lady I am not hitting on you -- you are
too old for me.

A former boss of mine made the opposite mistake. He made an unflattering
remark about the attire of a female co-worker. He ended up with the same
result as you: a visit from someone from our company's HR department.

This kind of "you have offended me, I am reporting you" charge became
quite the rage when I was still at Intel.

Negro engineers--the several we had as compared to thousands of
Indians and Chinese, plus whites--often found ways to complain instead
of doing real work. "It be diskimnatory!" was a way to slack and yet
be paid for the years it took their cases to wend their way to
conclusion. Of the three negroes I worked with who sued Intel,
reportedly 2 of them got "go away" settlements.

Women who complain either that they are being hit on, or not hit on,
or hit on by the same sex, or not hit on by the same sex, they are
also falling into the same gutter the negro engineer fell into.

Fuck them.

--Tim

[Todd Michel McComb]

Post by Ciccio
100 Things Restaurant Staffers Should Never Do (Part 1)
http://tinyurl.com/yfwvrpy

OK, this is a pretty interesting list. I'm glad I violated my
long-standing rule against visiting anything with an obfuscated
URL.

Post by Ciccio
1. Do not let anyone enter the restaurant without a warm greeting.

I do like being greeted, but I know people who would find this
offputting.

Post by Ciccio
2. Do not make a singleton feel bad.

I dine alone pretty often, and don't feel bad. How silly.

Post by Ciccio
3. Never refuse to seat three guests because a fourth has not yet
arrived.

Yeah, that's obnoxious.

Post by Ciccio
4. If a table is not ready within a reasonable length of time,
offer a free drink and/or amuse-bouche.

This doesn't actually appease me.

Post by Ciccio
5. Tables should be level without anyone asking.
12. Do not touch the rim of a water glass.
13. Handle wine glasses by their stems and silverware by the handles.
16. If someone requests more sauce or gravy or cheese, bring a
side dish of same.
21. Never serve anything that looks creepy or runny or wrong.
22. If someone is unsure about a wine choice, help him.
25. Make sure the glasses are clean.
28. Do not put your hands all over the spout of a wine bottle while
removing the cork.

Well duh.

Post by Ciccio
6. Do not lead the witness with, "Bottled water or just tap?"
7. Do not announce your name.
9. Do not recite the specials too fast or robotically or dramatically.
11. Do not hustle the lobsters.

I don't care about these at all.

Post by Ciccio
8. Do not interrupt a conversation.

This is great advice. I am sometimes rather annoyed by this.

Post by Ciccio
10. Do not inject your personal favorites when explaining the specials.
43. Never mention what your favorite dessert is.

I like to hear someone's favorites.

Post by Ciccio
14. When you ask, "How's everything?" or "How was the meal?" listen
to the answer and fix whatever is not right.

Ugh. This and #8 remind me of The Stinking Rose. Wow, were those
people obnoxious. They must've asked us if everything was OK
approximately once every 3 minutes. After about the 5th time, it
wasn't.

Post by Ciccio
15. Never say "I don't know" to any question without following
with, "I'll find out."

Amazing that there are losers who violate this.

Post by Ciccio
17. Do not take an empty plate from one guest while others are
still eating the same course.

I'd prefer they take the plate.

Post by Ciccio
18. Know before approaching a table who has ordered what. Do not
ask, "Who's having the shrimp?"

I agree this is nice for top service, but it's not something that
bothers me either.

Post by Ciccio
19. Offer guests butter and/or olive oil with their bread.

Uh, why?

Post by Ciccio
20. Never refuse to substitute one vegetable for another.

Who does this?

Post by Ciccio
23. If someone likes a wine, steam the label off the bottle and
give it to the guest with the bill.

This is a nice idea. I've never seen that.

Post by Ciccio
24. Never use the same glass for a second drink.

Eh, this depends. I'm kind of annoyed when given a new glass at
a bar, when the first one is still perfectly usable.

Post by Ciccio
26. Never assume people want their white wine in an ice bucket.

I guess this is an issue sometimes.

Post by Ciccio
27. For red wine, ask if the guests want to pour their own or
prefer the waiter to pour.

What?! This is stupid. Staff is supposed to pour, and too few places
realize this.

Post by Ciccio
29. Do not pop a champagne cork. Remove it quietly, gracefully.
The less noise the better.

I don't know why everyone would have the same preference about this.

Post by Ciccio
30. Never let the wine bottle touch the glass into which you are
pouring.

Eh.

Post by Ciccio
31. Never remove a plate full of food without asking what went
wrong.

Hmm, there are times I'd really rather not be asked.

Post by Ciccio
32. Never touch a customer. No excuses.

This depends too. If you're super-sexy, go right ahead.

Post by Ciccio
33. Do not bang into chairs or tables when passing by.

Amazing how many places can't seem to manage this.

Post by Ciccio
34. Do not have a personal conversation with another server within
earshot of customers.

I'd change this to "while customers are waiting for something."

Post by Ciccio
35. Do not eat or drink in plain view of guests.

Oh please. Who cares?

Post by Ciccio
36. Never reek from perfume or cigarettes.

This is general advice.

Post by Ciccio
37. Do not drink alcohol on the job, even if invited by the guests.

Likewise lame advice. It depends.

Post by Ciccio
38. Do not call a guy a "dude."
47. Do not gossip about co-workers or guests within earshot of
guests.

Eh.

Post by Ciccio
39. Do not call a woman "lady."
49. Never mention the tip, unless asked.

Probably not.

Post by Ciccio
41. Saying, "No problem" is a problem. It has a tone of insincerity
or sarcasm.

Pfft. How old is this guy?

Post by Ciccio
42. Do not compliment a guest's attire or hairdo or makeup. You
are insulting someone else.

Oh please.

Post by Ciccio
44. Do not discuss your own eating habits, be you vegan or lactose
intolerant or diabetic.

I have little sense for what this entails, in practice. Maybe I've
never experienced it.

Post by Ciccio
45. Do not curse, no matter how young or hip the guests.

I sit at bars a lot, so to me, this isn't always inappropriate.

Post by Ciccio
46. Never acknowledge any one guest over and above any other.

This is stupid and impossible.

Post by Ciccio
48. Do not ask what someone is eating or drinking when they ask
for more; remember or consult the order.

And never be in a bad mood when you show up for work, right?
Whatever.

Post by Ciccio
50. Do not turn on the charm when it's tip time. Be consistent
throughout.

I find this hilarious, actually. Even worse, what's with having
good service for the whole meal until it's time to get the check,
and no one will bring it? That's the stupidest thing I can imagine,
tip-wise, yet it happens all the time.

I guess I'll spare you my 51-100 comments.

[axlq]

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Ciccio
http://tinyurl.com/yfwvrpy
4. If a table is not ready within a reasonable length of time,
offer a free drink and/or amuse-bouche.

This doesn't actually appease me.

Me neither, but it would sooth me somewhat. I remember waiting an
hour for a reserved table for 4 at a place in Half Moon Bay while
other parties of 4 walked in without a reservation and sat down. A
free drink would certainly have failed to appease me, but would have
calmed me down a bit.

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Ciccio
19. Offer guests butter and/or olive oil with their bread.

Uh, why?

Duh. Because not everyone likes to eat butter on bread. Some of
us want olive oil instead. I am amazed how many restaurants give
me butter as a default, and force me to ask for olive oil. Even
Italian restaurants do this. That's unheard of in Italy.

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Ciccio
20. Never refuse to substitute one vegetable for another.

Who does this?

I can't think of any place who refuses to substitute veggies. Even
fast food joints will give you something else instead of fries if
they have it and you ask; e.g. Long John Silvers will gladly give me
extra hush puppies instead of coleslaw.

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Ciccio
23. If someone likes a wine, steam the label off the bottle and
give it to the guest with the bill.

This is a nice idea. I've never seen that.

Yes, it's a really nice touch. Something like that would make the
restaurant more memorable and make me more likely to return.

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Ciccio
27. For red wine, ask if the guests want to pour their own or
prefer the waiter to pour.

What?! This is stupid. Staff is supposed to pour, and too few places
realize this.

I strongly disagree. I *hate* it when the staff pours my wine,
because they often do it without being asked, assuming a partially
empty glass is a signal that I want more wine in it. That's
bullshit. My wife and I feel that consuming a half-bottle between
the two of us is a good complement to a dinner. And I don't want
the extra alcohol right then. I want to take half a bottle of wine
home with me, not waste it by leaving it on the table un-consumed.

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Ciccio
29. Do not pop a champagne cork. Remove it quietly, gracefully.
The less noise the better.

I don't know why everyone would have the same preference about this.

I've seen this rule before, many times. Cheap places like to pop
their corks because they think it sells champagne. High-end places
try to let the gas out with a whisper.

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Ciccio
37. Do not drink alcohol on the job, even if invited by the guests.

Likewise lame advice. It depends.

Yes, especially if the guest brings a bottle of special wine, pays
the corkage fee, and offers a taste to the sommelier or waiter, then
go ahead and taste it! When I have done this with wine I bring to
a restaurant, typically the owner or manager or someone who *isn't*
serving me will accept a tasting.

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Ciccio
41. Saying, "No problem" is a problem. It has a tone of insincerity
or sarcasm.

Pfft. How old is this guy?

Doesn't matter. These rules make it clear that he wants to have a
certain upscale ambiance in his restaurant. Other rules besides
this one discourage casual idioms.

I think I would enjoy the ambiance that all these rules put together
would create. I'd love to visit that restaurant, but unfortunately
it's likely in New York.

Post by Todd Michel McComb
I guess I'll spare you my 51-100 comments.

Oh, by all means, post them. This *is* usenet, after all.

-A

[Todd Michel McComb]

I remember waiting an hour for a reserved table for 4 at a place
in Half Moon Bay while other parties of 4 walked in without a
reservation and sat down.

Is there more to this story? That sounds outrageous.

Because not everyone likes to eat butter on bread.

To me, it's a matter of the cuisine of the restaurant. There are
places where offering the other would seem "wrong" to me. I suppose
one can say "the customer is always right" but I don't think a
restaurant needs to have everything around all the time.

I agree with you that it's very strange when an Italian place doesn't
serve/offer olive oil, though.

I strongly disagree. I *hate* it when the staff pours my wine,
because they often do it without being asked, ....

OK, I agree it is often done poorly and is often/usually more
hindrance than help. However, that is the etiquette. If the guy
wants to go against classic etiquette in an upscale place, OK,
nothing is in stone, but don't just say it blithely like that, as
if there isn't a history involved.

High-end places try to let the gas out with a whisper.

Just to prove they aren't cheap places?

Other rules besides this one discourage casual idioms.

I suppose.

[RegForte]

Post by Todd Michel McComb
Is there more to this story? That sounds outrageous.

Post by axlq
Because not everyone likes to eat butter on bread.

To me, it's a matter of the cuisine of the restaurant. There are
places where offering the other would seem "wrong" to me. I suppose
one can say "the customer is always right" but I don't think a
restaurant needs to have everything around all the time.
I agree with you that it's very strange when an Italian place doesn't
serve/offer olive oil, though.

I think there a difference between Italian food / restaurant
and Americanized Italian. I grew up in NJ, and I don't rememeber
ever seeing OO served with the bread in any of the the Italian
places I went to until sometime in the 80's when it did become
popular and fashionable. Only butter before that, from the
Diner type places all the way up through the high end restaurants.

[Ciccio]

Post by Todd Michel McComb
I agree with you that it's very strange when an Italian place doesn't
serve/offer olive oil, though.

Most native Italians would think serving olive oil for bread dipping
before dinner is strange. Indeed, even a separate bread plate would
seem strange. Typically, in Italy bread is not for preprandial
noshing. Though it is put to good use during the meal.

That said, I really enjoy delicious sour dough French bread before
dinner. Depending on my mood, butter will hit the spot, or olive oil
will. And of course, I follow the crowd by adding balsamic vinegar to
the olive oil. Often I'll also request some chopped garlic to mix in.

There's one thing that almost causes me to jones when I'm back east
and eating at an Italian restaurant. That is, before dinner, there's
no sour dough. Generally, it's just some lame ass dinner rolls.

Ciccio

[Todd Michel McComb]

Post by Ciccio
Most native Italians would think serving olive oil for bread dipping
before dinner is strange.

Are you talking about homes? I guess the whole restaurant ritual
of pre-dinner bread is a bit strange compared to what happens in
people's homes.

[Ciccio]

Post by Ciccio
Most native Italians would think serving olive oil for bread dipping
before dinner is strange.

Are you talking about homes?  

No, the general practice in restaurants in Italy.

Ciccio

[Steve Pope]

Post by Ciccio

Post by Ciccio
Most native Italians would think serving olive oil for bread dipping
before dinner is strange.

Are you talking about homes?  

No, the general practice in restaurants in Italy.

I agree. In Italy, in my experience, there will not be a little
saucer of olive oil for dipping bread in. Instead, they
place a bottle of olive oil on the table -- mainly to be used
on food items other than bread, such as contorni or pasta.

Bottles of oil in which hot peppers have been added are becoming
more common. (I think sometimes called "olio forte".) And recently,
I encountered a bottle of oil which had small-leaf Sicilian
basil in it. Pretty delicious.

Steve

[sf]

On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 22:51:37 -0800 (PST), Ciccio

Post by Ciccio

Post by Ciccio
Most native Italians would think serving olive oil for bread dipping
before dinner is strange.

Are you talking about homes?  

No, the general practice in restaurants in Italy.

I was just in Italy and bread was put on the table, not immediately
but soon after we sat down.

[sf]

On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 17:35:52 -0800 (PST), Ciccio

Post by Ciccio
And of course, I follow the crowd by adding balsamic vinegar to
the olive oil.

Ugh! Oil and vinegar is for salads, not bread.

Post by Ciccio
Often I'll also request some chopped garlic to mix in.

A little salt is all you need, but garlic is an interesting idea.

[axlq]

Post by Todd Michel McComb

I remember waiting an hour for a reserved table for 4 at a place
in Half Moon Bay while other parties of 4 walked in without a
reservation and sat down.

Is there more to this story? That sounds outrageous.

I've posted about it before.... hm, back in 2004. Here's the thread:
http://groups.google.com/group/ba.food/browse_frm/thread/d868192a37a0354b

-A

[sf]

Post by axlq

Post by Todd Michel McComb

I remember waiting an hour for a reserved table for 4 at a place
in Half Moon Bay while other parties of 4 walked in without a
reservation and sat down.

Is there more to this story? That sounds outrageous.

http://groups.google.com/group/ba.food/browse_frm/thread/d868192a37a0354b

That happened in 2004??? Dang, I remember the thread. You're not
letting it go are you? Have you remembered the restaurant's name yet?
My guess is it was the Moonraker/Ristorante Portofino.

[Steve Green]

Post by sf
That happened in 2004??? Dang, I remember the thread. You're not
letting it go are you? Have you remembered the restaurant's name yet?
My guess is it was the Moonraker/Ristorante Portofino.

That's on Rockaway Beach in Pacifica, not Half Moon Bay. My money's
on Miramar Beach Restaurant.

[sf]

Post by Todd Michel McComb

High-end places try to let the gas out with a whisper.

Just to prove they aren't cheap places?

To keep the champagne inside the bottle.

[Golden California Girls]

Post by sf

Post by Todd Michel McComb

High-end places try to let the gas out with a whisper.

Just to prove they aren't cheap places?

To keep the champagne inside the bottle.

I thought the point was to put half the bottle on the floor so the customer has
to order a second one.

[Steve Fenwick]

Post by axlq

Post by Todd Michel McComb

<http://tinyurl.com/yfwvrpy>
19. Offer guests butter and/or olive oil with their bread.

Uh, why?

Duh. Because not everyone likes to eat butter on bread. Some of
us want olive oil instead. I am amazed how many restaurants give
me butter as a default, and force me to ask for olive oil. Even
Italian restaurants do this. That's unheard of in Italy.

How about ones that only serve olive oil, sometimes flavored with
rosemary or other herbs?

Post by axlq

Post by Todd Michel McComb

37. Do not drink alcohol on the job, even if invited by the guests.

Likewise lame advice. It depends.

Yes, especially if the guest brings a bottle of special wine, pays
the corkage fee, and offers a taste to the sommelier or waiter, then
go ahead and taste it! When I have done this with wine I bring to
a restaurant, typically the owner or manager or someone who *isn't*
serving me will accept a tasting.

I suspect this refers less to the odd tasting of a customer-supplied
wine and more to drinking in quantity, which is more of a problem.

Post by axlq

Post by Todd Michel McComb

41. Saying, "No problem" is a problem. It has a tone of insincerity
or sarcasm.

Pfft. How old is this guy?

Doesn't matter. These rules make it clear that he wants to have a
certain upscale ambiance in his restaurant. Other rules besides
this one discourage casual idioms.

"No problem" does not pass any acceptance test of Miss Manners. "No
thank you", "my pleasure", "I'm happy to", and "you're welcome" are
appropriate.

Steve

[sf]

On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:49:40 -0800, Steve Fenwick

Post by Steve Fenwick
I suspect this refers less to the odd tasting of a customer-supplied
wine and more to drinking in quantity, which is more of a problem.

Where does that occur?

[Steve Fenwick]

Post by sf
On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:49:40 -0800, Steve Fenwick

Post by Steve Fenwick
I suspect this refers less to the odd tasting of a customer-supplied
wine and more to drinking in quantity, which is more of a problem.

Where does that occur?

Off the main floor, one hopes, if at all.

Steve

[Stef]

Post by axlq

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Ciccio
http://tinyurl.com/yfwvrpy
19. Offer guests butter and/or olive oil with their bread.

Uh, why?

Duh. Because not everyone likes to eat butter on bread. Some of
us want olive oil instead. I am amazed how many restaurants give
me butter as a default, and force me to ask for olive oil. Even
Italian restaurants do this. That's unheard of in Italy.

When I dine with my father we have the opposite problem, especially at
Cal-Italian type places -- he usually has to ask at least twice for
butter.
--
Stef ** ***@cat-and-dragon.com **
** cat-and-dragon.com/stef ** firecat.livejournal.com **
**
A bathroom hook will be loaded to capacity immediately upon becoming
available. This also applies to freeways, closets, playgrounds, downtown
hotels, taxis, parking lots, bookcases, wallets, purses, pockets, pipe
racks, basement shelves, and so on. -- John Joyce

[Ciccio]

OK, this is a pretty interesting list.  I'm glad I violated my
long-standing rule against visiting anything with an obfuscated
URL.

OK, perhaps in the future I'll post the long broken URL as well.

[Good comments on the rules snipped]

I agree that in the abstract some to the rules are inane. From a
business owner's perspective, however, there is no such thing as being
too careful as to sensitivities of customers/clients, especially in
the hospitality field.

Ciccio

[JC Dill]

Post by Ciccio

Post by Todd Michel McComb
OK, this is a pretty interesting list. I'm glad I violated my
long-standing rule against visiting anything with an obfuscated
URL.

OK, perhaps in the future I'll post the long broken URL as well.

Or just say what the domain is for the full url - you don't have to post
the full url. It also helps for later research, when viewing the post
in the archives one doesn't have to wonder where that URL went to try to
get context for the ensuing discussion.

Post by Ciccio
[Good comments on the rules snipped]
I agree that in the abstract some to the rules are inane. From a
business owner's perspective, however, there is no such thing as being
too careful as to sensitivities of customers/clients, especially in
the hospitality field.

In the abstract almost any list of rules will have some that seem inane.
In order for the rules to really make sense you need to have a
concrete example, not just "the abstract" to apply them.

jc

[Ciccio]

Post by JC Dill
Or just say what the domain is for the full url - you don't have to post
the full url.  

Posting the whole URL is easier.

Post by JC Dill
It also helps for later research, when viewing the post
in the archives one doesn't have to wonder where that URL went to try to
get context for the ensuing discussion.

That's why posting the whole URL may even be better.

Post by JC Dill
In the abstract almost any list of rules will have some that seem inane.
  In order for the rules to really make sense you need to have a
concrete example, not just "the abstract" to apply them.

I agree. That's why I asserted that they are all good rules in "real
world" of business.

Ciccio

[Al Eisner]

Post by Todd Michel McComb
OK, this is a pretty interesting list. I'm glad I violated my
long-standing rule against visiting anything with an obfuscated
URL.

If you go to the site tinyurl.com (not to the link provided), and click
on "Preview Feature" in the menu at the left side, you can turn on the
preview feature. Once this is set (until you've done something to
clear data, most likely cookies), when you connect to a tinyurl link
(such as the one in this thread) you will be given a translation of
the name and asked if you want to proceed to the site. This way
the original poster does not have to include the long link in his or
her post, and you are still protected.

[Golden California Girls]

Post by Al Eisner

Post by Todd Michel McComb
OK, this is a pretty interesting list. I'm glad I violated my
long-standing rule against visiting anything with an obfuscated
URL.

If you go to the site tinyurl.com (not to the link provided), and click
on "Preview Feature" in the menu at the left side, you can turn on the
preview feature. Once this is set (until you've done something to clear
data, most likely cookies), when you connect to a tinyurl link
(such as the one in this thread) you will be given a translation of
the name and asked if you want to proceed to the site. This way
the original poster does not have to include the long link in his or
her post, and you are still protected.

OR add "preview." after http:// and in front of the tinyurl.com There is no
excuse for anyone not to post the preview form because you get it automatically.

[Al Eisner]

On Tue, 3 Nov 2009, Todd Michel McComb wrote:

[snipped a lot of stuff which I agree with, or at least do not
disagree with.]

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Ciccio
14. When you ask, "How's everything?" or "How was the meal?" listen
to the answer and fix whatever is not right.

Ugh. This and #8 remind me of The Stinking Rose. Wow, were those
people obnoxious. They must've asked us if everything was OK
approximately once every 3 minutes. After about the 5th time, it
wasn't.

Right. I do think that a server who asks this question should be
prepared for an honest answer, and if negative be prepared to do
something (at least telling the chef or manager) rather than just
giving a sympathetic cluck or "sorry". Another pet peeve with
officious servers is their asking "is everything all right" when
you've barely had a chance to taste one item on a plate.

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Ciccio
19. Offer guests butter and/or olive oil with their bread.

Uh, why?

Right. Always offer caviar.

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Ciccio
27. For red wine, ask if the guests want to pour their own or
prefer the waiter to pour.

What?! This is stupid. Staff is supposed to pour, and too few places
realize this.

I actually find it annoying when servers pour wine without asking, based
on how close to empty a glass is. Maybe the person with an empty glass
doesn't want any more, but someone who is a slower drinker does. Wine
pouring should in general be left to the customers.

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Ciccio
34. Do not have a personal conversation with another server within
earshot of customers.

I'd change this to "while customers are waiting for something."

And I'd add to it lengthy non-meal-related conversations with customers at
one table while other customers are waiting". I'm not sure which is
more infuriating: failure to appear in the serving area at all (I'm
surprised not to see this on the list, did I miss it?) or being in plain
sight clearly wasting time while ignoring customers.

[Peter Lawrence]

Post by Al Eisner

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Ciccio
27. For red wine, ask if the guests want to pour their own or
prefer the waiter to pour.

What?! This is stupid. Staff is supposed to pour, and too few places
realize this.

I actually find it annoying when servers pour wine without asking, based
on how close to empty a glass is. Maybe the person with an empty glass
doesn't want any more, but someone who is a slower drinker does. Wine
pouring should in general be left to the customers.

I can't remember if a server has ever poured wine without asking first when
I've dined. I really don't mind them pouring the wine, as long as they ask
first, which in my experience they always have. OTOH, I have had some
dinner companions (like my Dad and some of my friends) refill my wine glass
without asking me first!


- Peter

[Al Eisner]

Post by Peter Lawrence

Post by Al Eisner

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Ciccio
27. For red wine, ask if the guests want to pour their own or
prefer the waiter to pour.

What?! This is stupid. Staff is supposed to pour, and too few places
realize this.

I actually find it annoying when servers pour wine without asking, based
on how close to empty a glass is. Maybe the person with an empty glass
doesn't want any more, but someone who is a slower drinker does. Wine
pouring should in general be left to the customers.

I can't remember if a server has ever poured wine without asking first when
I've dined. I really don't mind them pouring the wine, as long as they ask
first, which in my experience they always have. OTOH, I have had some dinner
companions (like my Dad and some of my friends) refill my wine glass without
asking me first!

Could well be that I'm extrapolating from one experience to the other.
Unless your Dad has been a waiter.... In any case, I see no need for
waiters to pour the wine from a bottle already on the table.

[sf]

On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 14:36:33 -0800, Al Eisner

Post by Al Eisner
In any case, I see no need for
waiters to pour the wine from a bottle already on the table.

It's part of being served. I like it, but I'm not against serving
myself either.

[JC Dill]

Post by Al Eisner
Another pet peeve with
officious servers is their asking "is everything all right" when
you've barely had a chance to taste one item on a plate.

I was taught to do a 1/4 check - about 1/4 of the way thru the meal
swing by the table and make sure everything is OK. You don't actually
need to say "is everything all right?" - if they are engaged in
conversation you can just slowly walk past giving them ample time to
catch your eye if they want to stop you for any reason.

Post by Al Eisner
I actually find it annoying when servers pour wine without asking, based
on how close to empty a glass is.

I like it when the server pours but HATE it when they pour without
checking to see if I want more. The server should always make sure more
wine is desired. Again, they don't have to actually ask. They can pick
up the bottle and tip it towards your glass while waiting for eye
contact and a head or hand movement to indicate "yes" or "no".

Post by Al Eisner

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Ciccio
34. Do not have a personal conversation with another server within
earshot of customers.

I'd change this to "while customers are waiting for something."

And I'd add to it lengthy non-meal-related conversations with customers
at one table while other customers are waiting". I'm not sure which is
more infuriating: failure to appear in the serving area at all (I'm
surprised not to see this on the list, did I miss it?) or being in plain
sight clearly wasting time while ignoring customers.

A server should NEVER be seen doing anything other than "serving".
There is never a good reason for any personal conversation with another
employee while within hearing of customers (or within eyesight of the
customers). They should also avoid conversations with customers, unless
it's at the tail end of the evening as the restaurant is slowing down,
and all other customers have been attended to.

jc

[sf]

On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 16:43:13 -0800, Al Eisner

Post by Al Eisner
Another pet peeve with
officious servers is their asking "is everything all right" when
you've barely had a chance to taste one item on a plate.

They usually ask just after the first bite goes into your mouth and
you haven't even started chewing yet. I have yet to say "come back in
3 minutes and ask me then". Someday I will.

[Al Eisner]

Post by sf
On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 16:43:13 -0800, Al Eisner

Post by Al Eisner
Another pet peeve with
officious servers is their asking "is everything all right" when
you've barely had a chance to taste one item on a plate.

They usually ask just after the first bite goes into your mouth and
you haven't even started chewing yet. I have yet to say "come back in
3 minutes and ask me then". Someday I will.

My usual response is "I have no idea [yet]". This usually confuses the
server a bit.

[sf]

On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 12:05:02 -0800, Al Eisner

Post by Al Eisner
My usual response is "I have no idea [yet]". This usually confuses the
server a bit.

Good response! I need to remember that one. :)

[Gavin Scott]

Post by Al Eisner

Post by sf

Post by Al Eisner
Another pet peeve with
officious servers is their asking "is everything all right" when
you've barely had a chance to taste one item on a plate.

They usually ask just after the first bite goes into your mouth and
you haven't even started chewing yet. I have yet to say "come back in
3 minutes and ask me then". Someday I will.

My usual response is "I have no idea [yet]". This usually confuses the
server a bit.

There's a worse version where they stick in a superlative like: "Is
everything absolutely incredible?" or the like. In these cases I'd
of course like to answer "no" but that puts them into total meltdown
over the fact that at the same time there's nothing actually wrong.

As far as getting the server's attention goes, there are too many of
them who suffer from what I call "Perseus Syndrome" where they seem
to subconsciously fear that they will be turned to stone if they
actually make eye contact with anyone in the room.

Perhaps the failure to tell you in advance what the restaurant is out
of explains the "Ah, excellent choice sir!" thing too, if they're
complimenting you on having selected the one dish they actually have.

G.

[Al Eisner]

Post by Gavin Scott

Post by Al Eisner

Post by sf

Post by Al Eisner
Another pet peeve with
officious servers is their asking "is everything all right" when
you've barely had a chance to taste one item on a plate.

They usually ask just after the first bite goes into your mouth and
you haven't even started chewing yet. I have yet to say "come back in
3 minutes and ask me then". Someday I will.

My usual response is "I have no idea [yet]". This usually confuses the
server a bit.

There's a worse version where they stick in a superlative like: "Is
everything absolutely incredible?" or the like. In these cases I'd
of course like to answer "no" but that puts them into total meltdown
over the fact that at the same time there's nothing actually wrong.
As far as getting the server's attention goes, there are too many of
them who suffer from what I call "Perseus Syndrome" where they seem
to subconsciously fear that they will be turned to stone if they
actually make eye contact with anyone in the room.
Perhaps the failure to tell you in advance what the restaurant is out
of explains the "Ah, excellent choice sir!" thing too, if they're
complimenting you on having selected the one dish they actually have.

Cheddar?

[Travis James]

Post by Al Eisner

Post by Gavin Scott
Perhaps the failure to tell you in advance what the restaurant is out
of explains the "Ah, excellent choice sir!" thing too, if they're
complimenting you on having selected the one dish they actually have.

Cheddar?

Not much call for it around here, sir. ... Ilchester.

[spamtrap1888]

Post by Ciccio
100 Things Restaurant Staffers Should Never Do (Part 1)
http://tinyurl.com/yfwvrpy

OK, this is a pretty interesting list.  I'm glad I violated my
long-standing rule against visiting anything with an obfuscated
URL.

Post by Ciccio
1. Do not let anyone enter the restaurant without a warm greeting.

I do like being greeted, but I know people who would find this
offputting.

I want my existence to be acknowledged, even if they're busy with
someone else right then. A flash of eye contact and a quick smile will
do.

Post by Ciccio
7. Do not announce your name.

This is useful if I haven't seen "chuck" for a while and I need
something: "Can you ask Chuck to come by?"

Post by Ciccio
8. Do not interrupt a conversation.

This is great advice.  I am sometimes rather annoyed by this.

true, but he's got to get what he needs and go on to the next table.
Waiters should be able to interrupt without being rude.

Post by Ciccio
17. Do not take an empty plate from one guest while others are
still eating the same course.

I'd prefer they take the plate.

They should ask, because (1) the last person eating feels pressure to
hurry, and (2) maybe she'll give me another bite of whatever she has,
and I don't want to have to spear it off her plate.

Post by Ciccio
18. Know before approaching a table who has ordered what. Do not
ask, "Who's having the shrimp?"

I agree this is nice for top service, but it's not something that
bothers me either.

This is a phenomenon of places where "back waiters" deliver the food.
My fear is that we'll have to fight to get our orders right. Not a
problem with large groups, where they bring out, say, all the eggplant
parmesans at the same time.

Post by Ciccio
19. Offer guests butter and/or olive oil with their bread.

Uh, why?

What's the point of dry bread?

Post by Ciccio
23. If someone likes a wine, steam the label off the bottle and
give it to the guest with the bill.

This is a nice idea.  I've never seen that.

wow, indeed.

Post by Ciccio
27. For red wine, ask if the guests want to pour their own or
prefer the waiter to pour.

What?!  This is stupid.  Staff is supposed to pour, and too few places
realize this.

It's good to ask. Let people monitor their own alcohol consumption if
they want.

Post by Ciccio
34. Do not have a personal conversation with another server within
earshot of customers.

I'd change this to "while customers are waiting for something."

It depends what they're talking about.

Post by Ciccio
35. Do not eat or drink in plain view of guests.

Oh please.  Who cares?

If I'm hungry or thirsty.

Post by Ciccio
41. Saying, "No problem" is a problem. It has a tone of insincerity
or sarcasm.

Pfft.  How old is this guy?

I'd rather hear, "I'd be happy to."

Post by Ciccio
50. Do not turn on the charm when it's tip time. Be consistent
throughout.

I find this hilarious, actually.  Even worse, what's with having
good service for the whole meal until it's time to get the check,
and no one will bring it?  That's the stupidest thing I can imagine,
tip-wise, yet it happens all the time.

Knowing when to bring the check out is difficult. Greek places will
not bring it till you ask, lest they be thought to be rushing you.
That's one difference between dining and refueling. Most people do not
linger after getting the check. But people don't want to have to try
to track down the server when they're ready to leave. (This is where
"Can you ask Chuck to come over"? comes in handy.) Nowadays people try
to compromise by giving you the check while telling you there's no
rush. I like the Eurostyle of catching the waiter's eye, then
pretending to scribble on my palm.

[Todd Michel McComb]

I like the Eurostyle of catching the waiter's eye, then pretending
to scribble on my palm.

I'm fine with that, but far too often, I cannot find the waiter at
all for an extended period! I expect to have to ask, because of
the perception from some that it's rude to just bring it (and I
agree that it is annoying, although I wouldn't find it rude
specifically, when someone brings me a check when I want to order
something else), but I'd like the waiter to at least make himself
available for such a request.

[JC Dill]

Post by spamtrap1888

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Ciccio
100 Things Restaurant Staffers Should Never Do (Part 1)
http://tinyurl.com/yfwvrpy

OK, this is a pretty interesting list. I'm glad I violated my
long-standing rule against visiting anything with an obfuscated
URL.

Post by Ciccio
1. Do not let anyone enter the restaurant without a warm greeting.

I do like being greeted, but I know people who would find this
offputting.

I want my existence to be acknowledged, even if they're busy with
someone else right then. A flash of eye contact and a quick smile will
do.

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Ciccio
7. Do not announce your name.

This is useful if I haven't seen "chuck" for a while and I need
something: "Can you ask Chuck to come by?"

I don't think this is useful at all.

1) All servers (and bus staff, etc.) should know who is working each
section. If you haven't seen your server you should be able to stop
anyone and say "can you please send my server over?". You shouldn't
need to remember your server's name. (I never do.)

2) An attentive server will never let you encounter a period when you
haven't seen them "for a while". They will always be checking in with
each table (looking for someone to make eye contact or a hand movement
if they need something) as they pass thru their section to wait on
another table, and if none of their tables needs anything they will
swing thru every few minutes "just in case" until someone needs something.

Post by spamtrap1888

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Ciccio
8. Do not interrupt a conversation.

This is great advice. I am sometimes rather annoyed by this.

true, but he's got to get what he needs and go on to the next table.
Waiters should be able to interrupt without being rude.

It is extremely rare that a server "needs" to interrupt a conversation
in order to do their job. If the party is too busy engaged in
conversation to stop when the server pauses by their table, then they
don't need anything right now. The only exception to this rule would be
for restaurants with fixed seating times where you need to order
promptly etc. in order for them to turn the tables according to
schedule. But even then, the server should just stop and wait for the
conversation to lull, rather than interrupt. It rarely takes more than
15 seconds before the party will realize they need to turn their
attention to the server.

Post by spamtrap1888

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Ciccio
17. Do not take an empty plate from one guest while others are
still eating the same course.

I'd prefer they take the plate.

They should ask, because (1) the last person eating feels pressure to
hurry, and (2) maybe she'll give me another bite of whatever she has,
and I don't want to have to spear it off her plate.

And again, they can ask without interrupting - eye contact, a small hand
gesture, and wait to see if the person offers the plate (e.g. leans back
or gestures to the plate) or declines (picking up a fork, or holding
their hand over the plate, or shaking the head "no").

Post by spamtrap1888

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Ciccio
18. Know before approaching a table who has ordered what. Do not
ask, "Who's having the shrimp?"

I agree this is nice for top service, but it's not something that
bothers me either.

This is a phenomenon of places where "back waiters" deliver the food.
My fear is that we'll have to fight to get our orders right. Not a
problem with large groups, where they bring out, say, all the eggplant
parmesans at the same time.

If the restaurant has a system where someone else serves the meal, there
usually is a system for noting the order so that anyone can look at the
ticket and know which meal goes to which seat.

Post by spamtrap1888

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Ciccio
23. If someone likes a wine, steam the label off the bottle and
give it to the guest with the bill.

This is a nice idea. I've never seen that.

wow, indeed.

I agree, this is a really nice touch.

Post by spamtrap1888

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Ciccio
34. Do not have a personal conversation with another server within
earshot of customers.

I'd change this to "while customers are waiting for something."

It depends what they're talking about.

Really? What type of personal conversation would be OK?

Post by spamtrap1888
I like the Eurostyle of catching the waiter's eye, then
pretending to scribble on my palm.

This works anywhere, as long as the server is good at making eye contact
and staying in touch with the tables.

jc

[spamtrap1888]

Post by JC Dill

Post by spamtrap1888

Post by Ciccio
8. Do not interrupt a conversation.

This is great advice.  I am sometimes rather annoyed by this.

true, but he's got to get what he needs and go on to the next table.
Waiters should be able to interrupt without being rude.

It is extremely rare that a server "needs" to interrupt a conversation
in order to do their job.  If the party is too busy engaged in
conversation to stop when the server pauses by their table, then they
don't need anything right now.  The only exception to this rule would be
for restaurants with fixed seating times where you need to order
promptly etc. in order for them to turn the tables according to
schedule.  But even then, the server should just stop and wait for the
conversation to lull, rather than interrupt.  It rarely takes more than
15 seconds before the party will realize they need to turn their
attention to the server...

That's really what I meant. The waiter has caused the conversation to
pause without being rude, so that he can get the information he needs.

Post by JC Dill

Post by spamtrap1888

Post by Ciccio
17. Do not take an empty plate from one guest while others are
still eating the same course.

I'd prefer they take the plate.

They should ask, because (1) the last person eating feels pressure to
hurry, and (2) maybe she'll give me another bite of whatever she has,
and I don't want to have to spear it off her plate.

And again, they can ask without interrupting - eye contact, a small hand
gesture, and wait to see if the person offers the plate (e.g. leans back
or gestures to the plate) or declines (picking up a fork, or holding
their hand over the plate, or shaking the head "no").

To me, they have interrupted without speaking. They have gotten me to
switch my attention from whatever to them. Nothing to complain about,
though.

Post by JC Dill

Post by spamtrap1888

Post by Ciccio
34. Do not have a personal conversation with another server within
earshot of customers.

I'd change this to "while customers are waiting for something."

It depends what they're talking about.

Really?  What type of personal conversation would be OK?

As long as they are not moaning, complaining, or discussing the
customers, I wouldn't complain.

[Golden California Girls]

Post by spamtrap1888

Post by JC Dill

Post by spamtrap1888

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Ciccio
34. Do not have a personal conversation with another server within
earshot of customers.

I'd change this to "while customers are waiting for something."

It depends what they're talking about.

Really? What type of personal conversation would be OK?

As long as they are not moaning, complaining, or discussing the
customers, I wouldn't complain.

My SO wanted me to do an S&M scene with zir buddies ...

or

Can you cover 4 I've got a big group on 6 ...

[Ian B MacLure]

Post by Ciccio
100 Things Restaurant Staffers Should Never Do (Part 1)
http://tinyurl.com/yfwvrpy
I agree with everything listed in the first 50. If, however, I had to
pick JUST one that would cause me to leave no tip, it would be: "36.
Never reek from perfume or cigarettes. People want to smell the food
and beverage." Especially, if the stench of the perfume or cologne
lingers after the food server departs.

In short two more reasons to avoid French waiters.

[sf]

On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 10:07:25 -0800 (PST), Ciccio

Post by Ciccio
100 Things Restaurant Staffers Should Never Do (Part 1)
http://tinyurl.com/yfwvrpy
I agree with everything listed in the first 50. If, however, I had to
pick JUST one that would cause me to leave no tip, it would be: "36.
Never reek from perfume or cigarettes. People want to smell the food
and beverage." Especially, if the stench of the perfume or cologne
lingers after the food server departs.

The *smell* of perfume or cigarettes on a server would cause you to
leave no tip even if the service was impeccable? Wow. You're a
crotchety old man.

[Ciccio]

Post by sf
On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 10:07:25 -0800 (PST), Ciccio

Post by Ciccio
I agree with everything listed in the first 50. If, however, I had to
pick JUST one that would cause me to leave no tip, it would be: "36.
Never reek from perfume or cigarettes. People want to smell the food
and beverage."  Especially, if the stench of the perfume or cologne
lingers after the food server departs.

The *smell* of perfume or cigarettes on a server would cause you to
leave no tip even if the service was impeccable?  Wow.  You're a
crotchety old man.

Oh, you lack reading comprehension? Wow. You're a crotchety old high
school dropout...

Now, pay attention. The statement did not state merely "smell."
Rather, It would be if the food server were to REEK
from perfume and cigarettes. Then I added, especially if the STENCH of
the perfume or cologne lingers after the food server departs. Now, if
there is such REEKING creating a lingering STENCH, then, by
definition, the service cannot be "impeccable."

I'm sorry if my comment hit a personal nerve with you. Perhaps you
should bathe more often and go easy on the foo-foo juice.

Ciccio

[sf]

On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 11:00:56 -0800 (PST), Ciccio

Post by Ciccio

Post by sf
On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 10:07:25 -0800 (PST), Ciccio

Post by Ciccio
I agree with everything listed in the first 50. If, however, I had to
pick JUST one that would cause me to leave no tip, it would be: "36.
Never reek from perfume or cigarettes. People want to smell the food
and beverage."  Especially, if the stench of the perfume or cologne
lingers after the food server departs.

The *smell* of perfume or cigarettes on a server would cause you to
leave no tip even if the service was impeccable?  Wow.  You're a
crotchety old man.

Oh, you lack reading comprehension? Wow. You're a crotchety old high
school dropout...
Now, pay attention. The statement did not state merely "smell."
Rather, It would be if the food server were to REEK
from perfume and cigarettes. Then I added, especially if the STENCH of
the perfume or cologne lingers after the food server departs. Now, if
there is such REEKING creating a lingering STENCH, then, by
definition, the service cannot be "impeccable."
I'm sorry if my comment hit a personal nerve with you. Perhaps you
should bathe more often and go easy on the foo-foo juice.

I have no idea what burr is up your butt, but it's obvious you're a
crotchety old man. Go soak your head and refresh yourself.

[Golden California Girls]

Post by sf

Post by Ciccio
I'm sorry if my comment hit a personal nerve with you. Perhaps you
should bathe more often and go easy on the foo-foo juice.

I have no idea what burr is up your butt, but it's obvious you're a
crotchety old man. Go soak your head and refresh yourself.

It is obvious you can't tell the difference between REEK and smell. I'm sorry
you missed the line for a nose when they were handing out parts for your body.


Outdoors walking down the street on a day with a light wind, a person who had no
olfactory sense came walking by in the other direction. I suspect they used an
entire bottle of whatever cheap fad crap it was. I took one breath and knew I
was going to have a reaction, but I expected a few sneezes. I didn't know I was
going to be on the ground in three more steps. My sinuses went from empty to
full in those two or three seconds. As you all know the tear ducts are
connected to the nose, with that much in the nose it backed up into the eyes
making the vision go blurred. Could breath through the mouth fine, but that was
likely because I was on hands and knees so the nose wasn't draining down the
throat. The wind dissipated it pretty quickly and I could continue. That idiot
inside would have been a hazmat response. This is REEK!

Ciggy butts is the worst possible smell when considering food outside of decomp.
Dang good reason smoking is banned at food establishments. Servers shouldn't
REEK of it any more than the person 10 tables over. Ciggy's like decomp are an
automatic REEK! there is no level where it is just smell.

[sf]

On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 16:45:54 -0800, Golden California Girls

Post by Golden California Girls

Post by sf

Post by Ciccio
I'm sorry if my comment hit a personal nerve with you. Perhaps you
should bathe more often and go easy on the foo-foo juice.

I have no idea what burr is up your butt, but it's obvious you're a
crotchety old man. Go soak your head and refresh yourself.

It is obvious you can't tell the difference between REEK and smell. I'm sorry
you missed the line for a nose when they were handing out parts for your body.

Nobody reeks of perfume although I will admit men's aftershave/cologne
can take your head off in an elevator. I have no idea where he goes
to smell cigarettes, but I'm a nonsmoker and I can say no server I've
come across in the last 10 years has reeked of smoke. He must go to
some piss poor places to eat.

Post by Golden California Girls
Outdoors walking down the street on a day with a light wind, a person who had no
olfactory sense came walking by in the other direction. I suspect they used an
entire bottle of whatever cheap fad crap it was. I took one breath and knew I
was going to have a reaction, but I expected a few sneezes. I didn't know I was
going to be on the ground in three more steps. My sinuses went from empty to
full in those two or three seconds. As you all know the tear ducts are
connected to the nose, with that much in the nose it backed up into the eyes
making the vision go blurred. Could breath through the mouth fine, but that was
likely because I was on hands and knees so the nose wasn't draining down the
throat. The wind dissipated it pretty quickly and I could continue. That idiot
inside would have been a hazmat response. This is REEK!

I think you're a little too sensitive.

Post by Golden California Girls
Ciggy butts is the worst possible smell when considering food outside of decomp.
Dang good reason smoking is banned at food establishments. Servers shouldn't
REEK of it any more than the person 10 tables over. Ciggy's like decomp are an
automatic REEK! there is no level where it is just smell.

You eat in the same places he does huh?

[Golden California Girls]

Post by sf
Nobody reeks of perfume although I will admit men's aftershave/cologne
can take your head off in an elevator.

Not everyone's nose is like a smokers, dulled into nothingness. I realize it is
in your DNA that you can't understand this. You just don't have the genes in
your nose. Simply allow that others can smell 10X what you do.

Post by sf
I have no idea where he goes
to smell cigarettes, but I'm a nonsmoker and I can say no server I've
come across in the last 10 years has reeked of smoke. He must go to
some piss poor places to eat.

Perhaps he does. Perhaps they aren't in California where smoke filled dining
rooms aren't uncommon. Perhaps he is talking about 10 years ago. The olfactory
assault is bad enough you would remember it for that long.

Post by sf
I think you're a little too sensitive.

To something in that horrible fake brew, yes, that was anaphylaxis. I don't
have a physical reaction to perfume in general. But I've encountered other
people who were wearing so much you couldn't have smelled a fresh onion you were
cutting. Haven't had that with a waiter or server yet.

Post by sf

Post by Golden California Girls
Ciggy butts is the worst possible smell when considering food outside of decomp.
Dang good reason smoking is banned at food establishments. Servers shouldn't
REEK of it any more than the person 10 tables over. Ciggy's like decomp are an
automatic REEK! there is no level where it is just smell.

You eat in the same places he does huh?

I won't eat in such a place. I wouldn't care if it takes a year to get a
reservation, had 100 stars and I had a freebie coming. No ciggy smoke period!



To pull a page from the Timmy book:
Wonder if those were coke ho's. Likely snorted enough to completely burn out
all the nerves in the nose. Bet they hardly smelled themselves.

[Ciccio]

Post by sf
Nobody reeks of perfume

Oh, so you've become desensitized to the smell of skanks...speaks
volumes.

Post by sf
can take your head off in an elevator.  I have no idea where he goes
to smell cigarettes, but I'm a nonsmoker and I can say no server I've
come across in the last 10 years has reeked of smoke.  

I guess hanging with those skanks has desensitized you to their
cigarette smoke too.

Post by sf
He must go to some piss poor places to eat.

The last time I had a server who smelled like ashtray was at The
Outback, which isn't a 3 star Michelin, but it's not piss poor. The
stench didn't linger, so I didn't ding him too bad on the tip for it.

Ciccio

[Al Eisner]

Post by Golden California Girls

Post by sf

Post by Ciccio
I'm sorry if my comment hit a personal nerve with you. Perhaps you
should bathe more often and go easy on the foo-foo juice.

I have no idea what burr is up your butt, but it's obvious you're a
crotchety old man. Go soak your head and refresh yourself.

It is obvious you can't tell the difference between REEK and smell. I'm sorry
you missed the line for a nose when they were handing out parts for your body.

I'm still working on the difference between "reek" and "REEK". Perhaps
the latter category includes the gratuitous insults which this thread
has oddly inspired.

[Ciccio]

Post by sf
I have no idea what burr is up your butt, but it's obvious you're a
crotchety old man. Go soak your head and refresh yourself.

I have no idea why you went ape shit spewing insults in defending the
extravagant use of cologne. It sounds like you need to go soak your
whole body in a bath and refresh yourself.

Ciccio

[sf]

On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 18:54:52 -0800 (PST), Ciccio

Post by Ciccio

Post by sf
I have no idea what burr is up your butt, but it's obvious you're a
crotchety old man. Go soak your head and refresh yourself.

I have no idea why you went ape shit spewing insults in defending the
extravagant use of cologne. It sounds like you need to go soak your
whole body in a bath and refresh yourself.

You are welcome to believe whatever floats your boat because you are
too biased to entertain any other thought.

[Ciccio]

Post by sf
You are welcome to believe whatever floats your boat because you are
too biased to entertain any other thought.

You damn right I am biased toward wanting good service when I dine. If
you are willing to accept low standards of service, that's up to
you...

Ciccio

[Dan Abel]

In article

Post by Ciccio

Post by sf
On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 10:07:25 -0800 (PST), Ciccio

Post by Ciccio
I agree with everything listed in the first 50. If, however, I had to
pick JUST one that would cause me to leave no tip, it would be: "36.
Never reek from perfume or cigarettes. People want to smell the food
and beverage."  Especially, if the stench of the perfume or cologne
lingers after the food server departs.

The *smell* of perfume or cigarettes on a server would cause you to
leave no tip even if the service was impeccable?  Wow.  You're a
crotchety old man.

Oh, you lack reading comprehension? Wow. You're a crotchety old high
school dropout...
Now, pay attention. The statement did not state merely "smell."
Rather, It would be if the food server were to REEK
from perfume and cigarettes. Then I added, especially if the STENCH of
the perfume or cologne lingers after the food server departs. Now, if
there is such REEKING creating a lingering STENCH, then, by
definition, the service cannot be "impeccable."

For me, it's not just "smell". I am allergic to some of that stuff.
Sometimes it is physically painful, sometimes my head gets so stuffy
that I can't smell a thing after that. I might as well eat cardboard.

[Todd Michel McComb]

Post by Dan Abel
I might as well eat cardboard.

Do you have a favorite recipe?

[Stef]

Post by Ciccio
100 Things Restaurant Staffers Should Never Do (Part 1)
http://tinyurl.com/yfwvrpy
9. Do not recite the specials too fast or robotically or dramatically.
It is not a soliloquy. This is not an audition.

I wish the whole custom of reciting specials out loud would go away.
Some of us are hearing impaired and some of us have lousy short term
memories. Give us the specials on a piece of paper. And don't make us go
to the front of the restaurant to read them off a blackboard, either.

Post by Ciccio
11. Do not hustle the lobsters. That is, do not say, “We only have
two lobsters left.” Even if there are only two lobsters left.

On the other hand -- please do know and disclose what dishes the
restaurant is out of, preferably when you hand out the menus. Please do
not come back to the table ten minutes later, without a menu, and say
"Sorry, we're out of what you ordered." And if it's before 6pm, the
restaurant should not be out of anything, especially specials.

Post by Ciccio
19. Offer guests butter and/or olive oil with their bread.

If you offer olive oil, also offer butter. Or at least if you make the
customer ask for it, don't make them ask two or three times.

Post by Ciccio
23. If someone likes a wine, steam the label off the bottle and give it
to the guest with the bill. It has the year, the vintner, the importer,
etc.

Does any restaurant actually do this?

Post by Ciccio
24. Never use the same glass for a second drink.

On the contrary, I'd rather have the same glass used for a refill of the
same drink. I have no wish to waste hot water.

Post by Ciccio
31. Never remove a plate full of food without asking what went wrong.
Obviously, something went wrong.

But sometimes what went wrong has nothing to do with the food -- maybe
the customer felt sick or upset suddenly. Don't ask "what went wrong."
You may ask a question *about the food*.

Post by Ciccio
33. Do not bang into chairs or tables when passing by.

Do not crowd so many tables into your restaurant that waiters and guests
must bang into chairs and tables when passing by.

Post by Ciccio
34. Do not have a personal conversation with another server within
earshot of customers.

Sometimes, I'd rather you didn't have lengthy personal conversations
with other customers either. On the other hand, I do like being treated
as a "regular."

Post by Ciccio
42. Do not compliment a guest’s attire or hairdo or makeup. You are
insulting someone else.

I agree with not complimenting, but I don't see why it automatically
means you're insulting someone else. The person who wrote this must have
the mother who asks "What's wrong with the other sweater?"

Post by Ciccio
43. Never mention what your favorite dessert is. It’s irrelevant.

I confess to thinking this is cute.

Post by Ciccio
46. Never acknowledge any one guest over and above any other. All guests
are equal.

I think it's classy when senior citizen guests are seated, given menus,
and served before younger ones.

Post by Ciccio
48. Do not ask what someone is eating or drinking when they ask for
more; remember or consult the order.

I agree, but if you're going to forget or not inform the person who
walks around with the ice tea pitcher, I'd rather you asked than
refilled my diet coke with lemon with ice tea just because there's a
lemon in the glass.
--
Stef ** ***@cat-and-dragon.com **
** cat-and-dragon.com/stef ** firecat.livejournal.com **
**
Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they
shall never cease to be amused.

[Todd Michel McComb]

Post by Stef
Give us the specials on a piece of paper.

Yes, I agree.

Post by Stef
On the other hand -- please do know and disclose what dishes the
restaurant is out of, preferably when you hand out the menus.

Good one.

Post by Stef
I think it's classy when senior citizen guests are seated, given
menus, and served before younger ones.

This can be overdone to the point of making the seniors uncomfortable,
though.

[Dan Abel]

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Stef
Give us the specials on a piece of paper.

Yes, I agree.

Couple of problems. One is that when the chef waltzes in and says they
got a great deal on XYZ, so that'll be the special, and the manager
complains that the specials menu is already printed and copied. Second
is when they run out of specials, they still show up on the specials
menu. If you go through and line them out, that doesn't look very
professional.

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Stef
On the other hand -- please do know and disclose what dishes the
restaurant is out of, preferably when you hand out the menus.

Good one.

If the specials menu is on a whiteboard in the front, you just erase
them as you run out, and then you don't have to worry about that, since
the customer doesn't know they even used to exist.

[Todd Michel McComb]

Post by Dan Abel
Couple of problems. One is that when the chef waltzes in and says
they got a great deal on XYZ, so that'll be the special, and the
manager complains that the specials menu is already printed and
copied.

They shouldn't be printing the specials menu until the chef gets
there, then. With today's technology, whipping one up is easy.

Post by Dan Abel
Second is when they run out of specials, they still show up on the
specials menu.

Just like any menu item.

Post by Dan Abel
If the specials menu is on a whiteboard in the front, you just
erase them as you run out, and then you don't have to worry about
that, since the customer doesn't know they even used to exist.

I think that's fine in certain sorts of places. It depends on the
layout and ambience.

[Stef]

Post by Dan Abel

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Stef
Give us the specials on a piece of paper.

Yes, I agree.

Couple of problems. One is that when the chef waltzes in and says they
got a great deal on XYZ, so that'll be the special, and the manager
complains that the specials menu is already printed and copied.

Don't print and copy the specials menu so early then. It doesn't have to
be fancy. A laser-printed piece of paper is fine.

Plenty of restaurants have the specials on paper, so obviously some of
them have overcome this problem.

Post by Dan Abel
Second
is when they run out of specials, they still show up on the specials
menu. If you go through and line them out, that doesn't look very
professional.

Say "I'm sorry, we're out of specials X and Y" while handing me the
menu.

Post by Dan Abel
If the specials menu is on a whiteboard in the front, you just erase
them as you run out, and then you don't have to worry about that, since
the customer doesn't know they even used to exist.

Having the menu on a board in the front is only slightly less annoying
than having it recited to me out loud.
--
Stef ** ***@cat-and-dragon.com **
** cat-and-dragon.com/stef ** firecat.livejournal.com **
**
"I'll tell you what I've come to think *real* rebellion is: ...it's *not
giving up." -- Joe Strummer quoted in Mikal Gilmore, _Night Beat: A
Shadow History of Rock & Roll_

[Golden California Girls]

Post by Dan Abel
Couple of problems. One is that when the chef waltzes in and says they
got a great deal on XYZ, so that'll be the special, and the manager
complains that the specials menu is already printed and copied. Second
is when they run out of specials, they still show up on the specials
menu. If you go through and line them out, that doesn't look very
professional.

Printer, Ink and a PC. Problem solved.

[sf]

Post by Stef
I wish the whole custom of reciting specials out loud would go away.
Some of us are hearing impaired and some of us have lousy short term
memories. Give us the specials on a piece of paper. And don't make us go
to the front of the restaurant to read them off a blackboard, either.

I think change is creeping up on the horizon. In the past year, I've
had the pleasure of opening menus that have a separate sheet with the
specials written on it. It wasn't often, but it happened.

[Todd Michel McComb]

Post by sf
I think change is creeping up on the horizon. In the past year,
I've had the pleasure of opening menus that have a separate sheet
with the specials written on it. It wasn't often, but it happened.

Oh, I definitely encounter this, and fairly frequently. It's just
not ubiquitous.

[Golden California Girls]

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by sf
I think change is creeping up on the horizon. In the past year,
I've had the pleasure of opening menus that have a separate sheet
with the specials written on it. It wasn't often, but it happened.

Oh, I definitely encounter this, and fairly frequently. It's just
not ubiquitous.

When they have to remember how many calories and how much salt in the special
when they give their speech ... gotta love those new regs.

[Todd Michel McComb]

Post by Golden California Girls
When they have to remember how many calories and how much salt in
the special when they give their speech ... gotta love those new
regs.

Now that I haven't encountered....

[sf]

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Golden California Girls
When they have to remember how many calories and how much salt in
the special when they give their speech ... gotta love those new
regs.

Now that I haven't encountered....

I *think* if anyone asks, it has to be written down somewhere. The
server doesn't have to memorize that stuff.

[Golden California Girls]

Post by sf

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Golden California Girls
When they have to remember how many calories and how much salt in
the special when they give their speech ... gotta love those new
regs.

Now that I haven't encountered....

I *think* if anyone asks, it has to be written down somewhere. The
server doesn't have to memorize that stuff.

Why yes, you get the point, it has to be written down. Now if the special is
just a sale price on a regular item ...

[evergene]

Post by Ciccio
100 Things Restaurant Staffers Should Never Do (Part 1)
http://tinyurl.com/yfwvrpy
I agree with everything listed in the first 50. If, however, I had to
pick JUST one that would cause me to leave no tip, it would be: "36.
Never reek from perfume or cigarettes. People want to smell the food
and beverage." Especially, if the stench of the perfume or cologne
lingers after the food server departs.
Ciccio

Part 2, with items 51 - 100, is now up, at
http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/one-hundred-things-restaurant-staffers-should-never-do-part-2/

I was glad to see #64, "Specials, spoken and printed, should always
have prices."

I like the idea that a restaurant owner cares enough to create
policies for his staff to follow, but I wonder how it'll work out in
practice. The guy who wrote this "100 things" piece is new to the
restaurant business, and is planning to open his first restaurant next
year. He'll have to hire a large and very professional staff.

Here's the bio of the writer:
Bruce Buschel, who writes The Start-Up Chronicle, is building and
starting his first restaurant (yes, he knows this is insane). He has
owned and edited a weekly newspaper and was a staff writer at The
Philadelphia Inquirer, Philadelphia Magazine and GQ before writing for
Rolling Stone, Village Voice, Premiere, Sport, Salon.com and The New
York Times Magazine. He has written two books, “The Watergate File”
(Flash Books, 1972) and “Walking Broad” (Simon & Schuster, 2007) , and
has produced and directed a series of jazz films called “Live at the
Village Vanguard.” He was co-creator of the Obie-winning musical,
“Eli’s Comin’.” He lives and works in Bridgehampton, N.Y.

Side note: a few years ago Mark Mellin and I had dinner at the Acme
Chop House. Our official waiter was accompanied by a trainee
(introduced as such to us) who was learning the ropes. The service was
very good.

[Todd Michel McComb]

Post by evergene
Part 2, with items 51 - 100, is now up
60. Bring all the appetizers at the same time, or do not bring the
appetizers. Same with entrees and desserts.

But don't insist that everyone at the table order the same number
of courses.

Post by evergene
72. Do not serve salad on a freezing cold plate; it usually
advertises the fact that it has not been freshly prepared.

It does?

Post by evergene
74. Let the guests know the restaurant is out of something before
the guests read the menu and order the missing dish.

Ah, there's Stef's.

[evergene]

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by evergene
Part 2, with items 51 - 100, is now up
72. Do not serve salad on a freezing cold plate; it usually
advertises the fact that it has not been freshly prepared.

It does?

The man who created this list has never dined at House of Prime Rib in
San Francisco, where the waiter brings out salad plates and forks that
have been chilled, then holds the big bowl of undressed salad way up
high and spins it around while adding dressing. This salad drama all
seems to make sense if you've taken the precaution of stopping at the
bar before sitting down for dinner.

[Stef]

Post by evergene
Part 2, with items 51 - 100, is now up, at
http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/one-hundred-things-restaurant-staffers-should-never-do-part-2/
52. Know your menu inside and out. If you serve Balsam Farm
candy-striped beets, know something about Balsam Farm and candy-striped
beets.

Good one.

Post by evergene
55. Do not serve an amuse-bouche without detailing the ingredients.
Allergies are a serious matter; peanut oil can kill. (This would also be
a good time to ask if anyone has any allergies.)

If people with food allergies would appreciate this, I'd be willing to
put up with it, but it would annoy the heck out of me to be asked about
allergies every time I sat down at a restaurant. Also, "allergies" are
not the only reason someone might want to avoid an ingredient. I'd
rather that servers accurately answered any questions about ingredients
but didn't ask questions.

Post by evergene
57. Bring the pepper mill with the appetizer. Do not make people wait or
beg for a condiment.

No pepper mill should be taller than 9 inches.

Post by evergene
65. Always remove used silverware and replace it with new.

I wish they wouldn't. It seems so wasteful.

Post by evergene
66. Do not return to the guest anything that falls on the floor — be
it napkin, spoon, menu or soy sauce.

Please do return to the guest their personal items, such as eyeglasses,
that fall on the floor.

Post by evergene
69. If a guest is having trouble making a decision, help out.

Not without asking first.

Post by evergene
83. Ask if your guest wants his coffee with dessert or after. Same with
an after-dinner drink.

Seriously? I have never been asked that at any restaurant.

Post by evergene
85. Never bring a check until someone asks for it. Then give it to the
person who asked for it.

No, no, no. I hate having to signal for the check. Please come to the
table and ask "would you like anything else?" and/or "Would you like the
check?"

And always leave the check in a neutral place on the table unless a
person is reaching for it when you bring it.

Post by evergene
91. If someone complains about the music, do something about it, without
upsetting the ambiance. (The music is not for the staff — it’s
for the customers.)

Actually, don't play music at all. If I want music I'll go to a concert.
I go to restaurants for food.

Post by evergene
97. If a guest goes gaga over a particular dish, get the recipe for him
or her.

Um, I doubt it.

Post by evergene
100. Guests, like servers, come in all packages. Show a “good
table” your appreciation with a free glass of port, a plate of
biscotti or something else management approves.

That contradicts an item in the first 50, which is "treat all guests
equally."
--
Stef ** ***@cat-and-dragon.com **
** cat-and-dragon.com/stef ** firecat.livejournal.com **
**
I was surprised there was no credit for "Blood Choreographer."
-- Stef's review of Sweeney Todd

[Golden California Girls]

Post by Stef

Post by evergene
55. Do not serve an amuse-bouche without detailing the ingredients.
Allergies are a serious matter; peanut oil can kill. (This would also be
a good time to ask if anyone has any allergies.)

If people with food allergies would appreciate this, I'd be willing to
put up with it, but it would annoy the heck out of me to be asked about
allergies every time I sat down at a restaurant. Also, "allergies" are
not the only reason someone might want to avoid an ingredient. I'd
rather that servers accurately answered any questions about ingredients
but didn't ask questions.

Asking is fine. If your a regular, not remembering the answer isn't. The
question should be more along the lines of any dietary restrictions or
allergies. That covers it all. Of course know your menu.

Post by Stef

Post by evergene
65. Always remove used silverware and replace it with new.

I wish they wouldn't. It seems so wasteful.

Do you only eat in Denny's and Sizzler? Although you can set the table for more
than one course.

[Todd Michel McComb]

Post by Stef
And always leave the check in a neutral place on the table unless
a person is reaching for it when you bring it.

We giggle about this a bit. There's such a gender bias in this
area, although my partner usually pays for food. Even *after* the
CC has been taken, I might get the little tray. I guess they think
my name might be Heather.

[Al Eisner]

On Fri, 6 Nov 2009, Stef wrote:

[good points]

Post by Stef

Post by evergene
69. If a guest is having trouble making a decision, help out.

Not without asking first.

What really gets me is when the server arrives fairly promptly, in fact
too promply such that I haven't yet decided, and I ask for a moment or a
minute more. And then the server disappears for the next ten minutes.

Post by Stef

Post by evergene
85. Never bring a check until someone asks for it. Then give it to the
person who asked for it.

No, no, no. I hate having to signal for the check. Please come to the
table and ask "would you like anything else?" and/or "Would you like the
check?"

Fully agree. Although there are certain types of ethnic restaurants
where not brining the check is a matter of the culture (it is considered
rude to rush the diner), so one must learn such exceptions.

Post by Stef

Post by evergene
91. If someone complains about the music, do something about it, without
upsetting the ambiance. (The music is not for the staff — it’s
for the customers.)

Actually, don't play music at all. If I want music I'll go to a concert.
I go to restaurants for food.

Absolutely right.

Post by Stef

Post by evergene
97. If a guest goes gaga over a particular dish, get the recipe for him
or her.

Um, I doubt it.

Post by evergene
100. Guests, like servers, come in all packages. Show a “good
table” your appreciation with a free glass of port, a plate of
biscotti or something else management approves.

That contradicts an item in the first 50, which is "treat all guests
equally."

It depends entirely on whether I'm the guest referred to in #100.

[Todd Michel McComb]

Post by Al Eisner
What really gets me is when the server arrives fairly promptly,
in fact too promply such that I haven't yet decided, and I ask for
a moment or a minute more. And then the server disappears for the
next ten minutes.

This seems to happen to me often too. I agree it can be annoying.
I like a moment to get settled, but that doesn't mean I'm not anxious
to have some food.

As I've told bartenders, the only beer I might be in a hurry for
is the first one.

Post by Al Eisner

Post by Stef
Actually, don't play music at all.

Absolutely right.

A little quiet music seems appropriate to me some places. Loud
music is never appreciated by me. It's TVs I'd really like to be
muted at all times.

[Ciccio]

Part 2, with items 51 - 100, is now up, athttp://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/05/one-hundred-things-restauran...

Again, I agree with all of them.

The ones, if violated, which may rate no tip at all are:

"77. Do not disappear." I don't mean needing to ask for the server
once or twice, but really being put on the server's pay-no-mind-list.
Of course, upon reappearing, I expect an apology, which may cause me
reinstate the tip.

"88. Do not ask if a guest needs change. Just bring the change."
Violating this one might also rate a zero tip from me. When I'm asked
this, I remain silent and only react with a stern look. If the server
becomes contrite, I may reinstate the tip.

Ciccio

[Todd Michel McComb]

Post by Ciccio
"88. Do not ask if a guest needs change. Just bring the change."
Violating this one might also rate a zero tip from me.

Oh, that doesn't bother me. It just seems easier sometimes.

[Al Eisner]

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Ciccio
"88. Do not ask if a guest needs change. Just bring the change."
Violating this one might also rate a zero tip from me.

Oh, that doesn't bother me. It just seems easier sometimes.

It generally doesn't bother me either. Except in cases (actual) in which
I've put down a $20 bill for a $12 meal. Asking in that case simply
demonstrates stupidity (or extreme egotism, which in this case is also
stupidity). Even so, it doesn't rate a 0 tip.

[Todd Michel McComb]

Post by Al Eisner
It generally doesn't bother me either. Except in cases (actual)
in which I've put down a $20 bill for a $12 meal. Asking in that
case simply demonstrates stupidity (or extreme egotism, which in
this case is also stupidity). Even so, it doesn't rate a 0 tip.

Yeah, I've had situations where a server/bartender will ask that,
and kind of go "oops" (maybe not out loud, but you can see it) when
they look again at the cash & bill amounts. I guess that's a case
of not paying attention, although I wouldn't necessarily call it
stupidity. On the other hand, if I have an $18 tab and put out a
twenty and a one, well, it would be stupid to think I want change.

[James Silverton]

Post by Steve Fenwick
In article

Post by Al Eisner
It generally doesn't bother me either. Except in cases
(actual) in which I've put down a $20 bill for a $12 meal.
Asking in that case simply demonstrates stupidity (or extreme
egotism, which in this case is also stupidity). Even so, it
doesn't rate a 0 tip.

Yeah, I've had situations where a server/bartender will ask
that, and kind of go "oops" (maybe not out loud, but you can
see it) when they look again at the cash & bill amounts. I
guess that's a case of not paying attention, although I
wouldn't necessarily call it stupidity. On the other hand, if
I have an $18 tab and put out a twenty and a one, well, it
would be stupid to think I want change.

I'd think a waiter who did not return the change for a $20 on an $18
check would have to be stupid. Leaving $21 pretty obviously indicates
that the tip is included and it would be my normal round up of 15%. In
any case, after putting down the money, I'd probably leave then and
there.

[James Silverton]

Post by Al Eisner

Post by Steve Fenwick
In article

Post by Ciccio
"88. Do not ask if a guest needs change. Just bring the
change." Violating this one might also rate a zero tip from me.

Oh, that doesn't bother me. It just seems easier sometimes.

It generally doesn't bother me either. Except in cases
(actual) in which I've put down a $20 bill for a $12 meal. Asking in
that case simply demonstrates stupidity (or extreme egotism, which in
this case is also stupidity). Even so, it
doesn't rate a 0 tip. --

It is most often just forgetfulness or being overworked. However, I
seldom pay cash for meals so I'm not a good judge. If I had to ask a
waiter to bring my change, my tip would be small.