New at Stanford Shopping Center

[Al Eisner]

Two new restaurants opening at the Stanford Shopping Center, both along
the side closest to Sand Hill Rd., at the location of what was formerly a
gardening/etc. store (Crate and Barrel?):

1) "The Melt". This seems a bit bizarre. They served grilled cheese on
bread (most combinations more interesting than the standard American
Cheese version) and pureed soups. The idea apparently is to dip the
grilled cheese in the soup. (I stopped in and that's what I was
told.) The menu is at their website, themelt.com. It's an informal
order-at-the-counter place. In response to clicking on "Locations",
the web site provides a map which makes it appear that there are
hundreds of these across North America (including Mexico). But a
random search for specific locations didn't turn up anything other
than three in SF and the Stanford location. Very puzzling. I haven't
tried it yet, but probably will do so (with the anticipation that it
will be my only visit, but who knows?)

2) Of much more potential interest is "Yucca de Lac", not yet open I
think, but it looks pretty close). This is a pan-Asian place
derived from a longstanding Hong Kong restaurant. See
http://www.yuccarestaurant.com/ . Of course, not all Hong Kong-type
imports turn out to be winners here, but it seems quite promisint.

[SMS]

Post by Al Eisner
Two new restaurants opening at the Stanford Shopping Center, both along
the side closest to Sand Hill Rd., at the location of what was formerly a
1) "The Melt". This seems a bit bizarre. They served grilled cheese on
bread (most combinations more interesting than the standard American
Cheese version) and pureed soups. The idea apparently is to dip the
grilled cheese in the soup. (I stopped in and that's what I was
told.) The menu is at their website, themelt.com. It's an informal
order-at-the-counter place. In response to clicking on "Locations",
the web site provides a map which makes it appear that there are
hundreds of these across North America (including Mexico). But a
random search for specific locations didn't turn up anything other
than three in SF and the Stanford location. Very puzzling. I haven't
tried it yet, but probably will do so (with the anticipation that it
will be my only visit, but who knows?)

I guess paying $14 or so for soup and a cheese sandwich works at
Stanford Shopping Center. I read about this chain a while back.

[Peter Lawrence]

Post by Al Eisner
Two new restaurants opening at the Stanford Shopping Center, both along
the side closest to Sand Hill Rd., at the location of what was formerly a
1) "The Melt". This seems a bit bizarre. They served grilled cheese on
bread (most combinations more interesting than the standard American
Cheese version) and pureed soups. The idea apparently is to dip the
grilled cheese in the soup. (I stopped in and that's what I was
told.) The menu is at their website, themelt.com. It's an informal
order-at-the-counter place. In response to clicking on "Locations",
the web site provides a map which makes it appear that there are
hundreds of these across North America (including Mexico). But a
random search for specific locations didn't turn up anything other
than three in SF and the Stanford location. Very puzzling. I haven't
tried it yet, but probably will do so (with the anticipation that it
will be my only visit, but who knows?)

I guess paying $14 or so for soup and a cheese sandwich works at Stanford
Shopping Center. I read about this chain a while back.

I had passed by it in December. There was a line to get into the place.
Couldn't understand why anyone would pay so much money for so little food,
grilled cheese no less. I thought Stanford students were supposed to be
smart (many in the line appeared to be Stanford students).


- Peter

[Al Eisner]

Post by Peter Lawrence

Post by Al Eisner
Two new restaurants opening at the Stanford Shopping Center, both along
the side closest to Sand Hill Rd., at the location of what was formerly a
1) "The Melt". This seems a bit bizarre. They served grilled cheese on
bread (most combinations more interesting than the standard American
Cheese version) and pureed soups. The idea apparently is to dip the
grilled cheese in the soup. (I stopped in and that's what I was
told.) The menu is at their website, themelt.com. It's an informal
order-at-the-counter place. In response to clicking on "Locations",
the web site provides a map which makes it appear that there are
hundreds of these across North America (including Mexico). But a
random search for specific locations didn't turn up anything other
than three in SF and the Stanford location. Very puzzling. I haven't
tried it yet, but probably will do so (with the anticipation that it
will be my only visit, but who knows?)

I guess paying $14 or so for soup and a cheese sandwich works at Stanford
Shopping Center. I read about this chain a while back.

I had passed by it in December. There was a line to get into the place.
Couldn't understand why anyone would pay so much money for so little food,
grilled cheese no less. I thought Stanford students were supposed to be
smart (many in the line appeared to be Stanford students).

I equally do not understand the lines at Sprinkles, an expensive cupcake
outlet also at the Stanford Center.

But suppose, instead, you started with the premise that Stanford students
are indeed extremely smart. See where your reasoning would go then. :)

[Todd Michel McComb]

Post by Peter Lawrence
Couldn't understand why anyone would pay so much money for so
little food, grilled cheese no less.

I haven't been there, and probably never will (since Stanford
Shopping Center isn't my idea of a good place to go), so I don't
know what they do there, but I'll point out that some cheeses are
quite pricey as raw ingredients.

[tutall]

Post by Todd Michel McComb
I haven't been there, and probably never will (since Stanford
Shopping Center isn't my idea of a good place to go),

Depends what you go there for. It's pretty nice for people watching on
a warm summer day.

[Peter Lawrence]

Post by tutall

Post by Todd Michel McComb
I haven't been there, and probably never will (since Stanford
Shopping Center isn't my idea of a good place to go),

Depends what you go there for. It's pretty nice for people watching on
a warm summer day.

I usually don't choose any particular shopping center or mall to shop at
just because the mall itself. I just visit ones that have stores I want to
shop at on that particular day. And as major shopping centers and malls go,
Stanford Shopping Center is probably the best one on the Peninsula and in
the South Bay as crowds and parking goes. I find Valley Fair and Hillsdale
much more annoying (in terms of crowds, traffic, and parking) than Stanford.


- Peter

[Todd Michel McComb]

Post by Peter Lawrence
I usually don't choose any particular shopping center or mall to
shop at just because the mall itself. I just visit ones that have
stores I want to shop at on that particular day.

There aren't any stores at malls that I want to shop at. The only
reason I've been to any in the past decade or so is being dragged
there, in which case the choice of mall wasn't mine.

(In the olden days, when the kids were small, we would go to malls
as places to walk around. The stores were still useless, other than
say, ice cream.)

[Peter Lawrence]

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Peter Lawrence
I usually don't choose any particular shopping center or mall to
shop at just because the mall itself. I just visit ones that have
stores I want to shop at on that particular day.

There aren't any stores at malls that I want to shop at. The only
reason I've been to any in the past decade or so is being dragged
there, in which case the choice of mall wasn't mine.
(In the olden days, when the kids were small, we would go to malls
as places to walk around. The stores were still useless, other than
say, ice cream.)

So where to you shop for clothing (especially clothing that needs to be
fitted, like suits), shoes, gifts, home furnishings including things like
glassware, and small appliances?


- Peter

[Todd Michel McComb]

Post by Peter Lawrence
So where to you shop for clothing (especially clothing that needs
to be fitted, like suits), shoes, gifts, home furnishings including
things like glassware, and small appliances?

You have to keep in mind that I'm both extremely uninteresting, and
actively dislike stores and shopping.

I haven't bought a suit this millennium. When my regular clothes
wear out, which they do, and that's the only reason I buy more, I
reorder the exact same items from jcp.com (they recently made the
waist of their jeans bigger, which annoys the fuck out of me, FWIW).
I haven't bought a pair of shoes in about a decade, but when my
sandals wear out, I order more from usually campmor.com or reioutlet.com
(but finding decent sandals seems to get harder & harder; for some
reason, they have to change the "styles"). Gifts... no idea what
to make of that; if I give someone something, it's because I have
it. Home furnishings...? I bought a table in '95 or so, if that
counts. Oh, glassware... wow, none this millennium, nor even on
the radar. Small appliances would be whatever a web search turns
up, not that it's a frequent thing. When I moved into this place
in 2004, I bought a variety of lamps and shelving at OSH, which
isn't in a mall.

[evergene]

Post by Todd Michel McComb
You have to keep in mind that I'm both extremely uninteresting,

is contradicted by everything that follows.

Post by Todd Michel McComb
and actively dislike stores and shopping.
I haven't bought a suit this millennium. When my regular clothes
wear out, which they do, and that's the only reason I buy more, I
reorder the exact same items from jcp.com (they recently made the
waist of their jeans bigger, which annoys the fuck out of me, FWIW).
I haven't bought a pair of shoes in about a decade, but when my
sandals wear out, I order more from usually campmor.com or reioutlet.com
(but finding decent sandals seems to get harder & harder; for some
reason, they have to change the "styles"). Gifts... no idea what
to make of that; if I give someone something, it's because I have
it. Home furnishings...? I bought a table in '95 or so, if that
counts. Oh, glassware... wow, none this millennium, nor even on
the radar. Small appliances would be whatever a web search turns
up, not that it's a frequent thing. When I moved into this place
in 2004, I bought a variety of lamps and shelving at OSH, which
isn't in a mall.

[Al Eisner]

Post by evergene

Post by Todd Michel McComb
You have to keep in mind that I'm both extremely uninteresting,

is contradicted by everything that follows.

Post by Todd Michel McComb
and actively dislike stores and shopping.
I haven't bought a suit this millennium. When my regular clothes
wear out, which they do, and that's the only reason I buy more, I
reorder the exact same items from jcp.com (they recently made the
waist of their jeans bigger, which annoys the fuck out of me, FWIW).
I haven't bought a pair of shoes in about a decade, but when my
sandals wear out, I order more from usually campmor.com or reioutlet.com
(but finding decent sandals seems to get harder & harder; for some
reason, they have to change the "styles"). Gifts... no idea what
to make of that; if I give someone something, it's because I have
it. Home furnishings...? I bought a table in '95 or so, if that
counts. Oh, glassware... wow, none this millennium, nor even on
the radar. Small appliances would be whatever a web search turns
up, not that it's a frequent thing. When I moved into this place
in 2004, I bought a variety of lamps and shelving at OSH, which
isn't in a mall.

Todd Michael McComb, the most interesting man in the world!
(But I don't think that "rarely drink beer" thing applies.)

[Al Eisner]

Post by Al Eisner

Post by evergene

Post by Todd Michel McComb
You have to keep in mind that I'm both extremely uninteresting,

is contradicted by everything that follows.

Post by Todd Michel McComb
and actively dislike stores and shopping.
I haven't bought a suit this millennium. When my regular clothes
wear out, which they do, and that's the only reason I buy more, I
reorder the exact same items from jcp.com (they recently made the
waist of their jeans bigger, which annoys the fuck out of me, FWIW).
I haven't bought a pair of shoes in about a decade, but when my
sandals wear out, I order more from usually campmor.com or reioutlet.com
(but finding decent sandals seems to get harder & harder; for some
reason, they have to change the "styles"). Gifts... no idea what
to make of that; if I give someone something, it's because I have
it. Home furnishings...? I bought a table in '95 or so, if that
counts. Oh, glassware... wow, none this millennium, nor even on
the radar. Small appliances would be whatever a web search turns
up, not that it's a frequent thing. When I moved into this place
in 2004, I bought a variety of lamps and shelving at OSH, which
isn't in a mall.

Todd Michael McComb, the most interesting man in the world!
(But I don't think that "rarely drink beer" thing applies.)

It occurs to me that if Todd doesn't watch television, he might not get
the reference here. Too bad!

By the way, I'd estimate that more than 3/4 of my own visits to the
Stanford Shopping Center are food-targeted -- specifically, Sigona's
produce market.

[SMS]

Post by Peter Lawrence
So where to you shop for clothing (especially clothing that needs to be
fitted, like suits), shoes, gifts, home furnishings including things
like glassware, and small appliances?

Plenty of places outside malls for all of those items. Costco, Ikea,
Target, Walmart, and a lot of shoe stores. Suits are iffy. Costco
occasionally has fitted suits in a road show. JC Penney has a lot of
choices in lower end wool suit separates, but I suppose since it's in a
mall that doesn't count.

How often do a lot of people wear suits anyway? Some never do.

[spamtrap1888]

Post by SMS

Post by Peter Lawrence
So where to you shop for clothing (especially clothing that needs to be
fitted, like suits), shoes, gifts, home furnishings including things
like glassware, and small appliances?

Plenty of places outside malls for all of those items. Costco, Ikea,
Target, Walmart, and a lot of shoe stores. Suits are iffy. Costco
occasionally has fitted suits in a road show. JC Penney has a lot of
choices in lower end wool suit separates, but I suppose since it's in a
mall that doesn't count.
How often do a lot of people wear suits anyway? Some never do.

The old suit store chains (e.g. Hastings) are long out of business.
There are no haberdashers any more. The closest thing is the Men's
Wearhouse, which usually is in a freestanding store, perhaps on the
periphery of a mall.

[Peter Lawrence]

Post by spamtrap1888
The old suit store chains (e.g. Hastings) are long out of business.
There are no haberdashers any more. The closest thing is the Men's
Wearhouse, which usually is in a freestanding store, perhaps on the
periphery of a mall.

Even though the store does a large business in women's fashion, I would
consider the Wilkes Bashford two-store chain, a haberdasher.


- Peter

[Ciccio]

Post by spamtrap1888
The old suit store chains (e.g. Hastings) are long out of business.
There are no haberdashers any more. The closest thing is the Men's
Wearhouse, which usually is in a freestanding store, perhaps on the
periphery of a mall.

I go to Brooks Brothers in SF, which is not in a mall. Though I
believe there is also one at the Stanford Mall.

Ciccio

[Julian Macassey]

Post by tutall

Post by Todd Michel McComb
I haven't been there, and probably never will (since Stanford
Shopping Center isn't my idea of a good place to go),

Depends what you go there for. It's pretty nice for people watching on
a warm summer day.

If your idea of people watching is scantily clad teenage
girls, you can do that on any day of the year at UC Santa
Barbara. You can tell if it's cold, they wear Uggs with the
mini-skirts.

[Tim May]

Post by Julian Macassey

Post by tutall

Post by Todd Michel McComb
I haven't been there, and probably never will (since Stanford
Shopping Center isn't my idea of a good place to go),

Depends what you go there for. It's pretty nice for people watching on
a warm summer day.

If your idea of people watching is scantily clad teenage
girls, you can do that on any day of the year at UC Santa
Barbara. You can tell if it's cold, they wear Uggs with the
mini-skirts.

I was back there a few years ago, for some kind of reunion, and, man,
were the nearly naked chicks hot! They weren't naked, just a lot less
clothed than the chicks in most parts of California. Must be something
in the water.

A few were on bicycles near me between the Psychology building
(unchanged since 1970) and the College of Creative Studies building
(one major move since 1970). Wow. Almost like the good old days of the
bra-less chicks and short-shorts. The early 1970s were some mighty fine
years.

Of course, I felt my age. I was nearly 40 years older than these chicks
in their see-through tops and short shorts. C'est la vie.

I think this one was my last reunion. I've already written-off another
return to a high school reunion (no young women anywhere to be seen,
but still kind of strange and pervy), and now I think I've written off
any return to any college event. Just too many years have passed.

[Ciccio]

Post by Tim May
Of course, I felt my age. I was nearly 40 years older than these chicks
in their see-through tops and short shorts. C'est la vie.

Balderdash!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2077562/Flavio-Briatore-gets-hold-wife-Elisabettas-fabulous-figure.html

Ciccio

[spamtrap1888]

Post by Ciccio

Post by Tim May
Of course, I felt my age. I was nearly 40 years older than these chicks
in their see-through tops and short shorts. C'est la vie.

Balderdash!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2077562/Flavio-Briatore-...

She's only 30 years younger than he is. I guess a background in
fashion, Formula 1 racing, and soccer team ownership outweighs a
paunch and manboobs.

[Al Eisner]

Post by Al Eisner
Two new restaurants opening at the Stanford Shopping Center, both along
the side closest to Sand Hill Rd., at the location of what was formerly a
1) "The Melt". This seems a bit bizarre. They served grilled cheese on
bread (most combinations more interesting than the standard American
Cheese version) and pureed soups. The idea apparently is to dip the
grilled cheese in the soup. (I stopped in and that's what I was
told.) The menu is at their website, themelt.com. It's an informal
order-at-the-counter place. In response to clicking on "Locations",
the web site provides a map which makes it appear that there are
hundreds of these across North America (including Mexico). But a
random search for specific locations didn't turn up anything other
than three in SF and the Stanford location. Very puzzling. I haven't
tried it yet, but probably will do so (with the anticipation that it
will be my only visit, but who knows?)

I guess paying $14 or so for soup and a cheese sandwich works at Stanford
Shopping Center. I read about this chain a while back.

Actually, I jsut checked their web page, and your information is wrong.
The cost is about $9, not $14; and you're not required to order both the
sandwich and the soup, so a student can get by more cheaply.

[SMS]

Post by Al Eisner
Actually, I jsut checked their web page, and your information is wrong.
The cost is about $9, not $14; and you're not required to order both the
sandwich and the soup, so a student can get by more cheaply.

What are the dining options like on the Stanford campus these days? I
remember when Stanford had a particularly horrible food service company
called "Servomation." They had that same company at the university I
went to.

Last week we visited a university in Flagstaff Arizona. They had an
amazingly good all you can eat food court with Italian, Pizza, Mongolian
BBQ, Burgers/Fries/Chili, Salads, Sandwiches, and Comfort Food. They
gave us a free lunch, but it's normally about $6.50 for students, $9.50
for the public, including tax, beverages, dessert, etc.. I think the
meals are planned by the school's hotel and restaurant college. Dinner
is $1 more. We went back there for dinner too.

<http://1899barandgrill.com/NAUdining/Feb20HotSpot.html>

[Todd Michel McComb]

Post by SMS
Last week we visited a university in Flagstaff Arizona. They had
an amazingly good all you can eat food court with Italian, Pizza,
Mongolian BBQ, Burgers/Fries/Chili, Salads, Sandwiches, and Comfort
Food.

When I say my son picked UC Davis for the food, he sometimes objects,
but he's not here to speak up for himself.

[Aahz Maruch]

Post by Todd Michel McComb
When I say my son picked UC Davis for the food, he sometimes objects,
but he's not here to speak up for himself.

<raised eyebrow> Either your son has different tastes or the UCD food
has changed in the last quarter-century.

[Todd Michel McComb]

Either your son has different tastes or the UCD food has changed
in the last quarter-century.

Did it used to be bad? They run their own food service out of their
food-related majors. It's not entirely local ingredients and such,
but some of it is. It all seemed substantially better than the schools
that have third party contractors.

[Aahz Maruch]

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Either your son has different tastes or the UCD food has changed
in the last quarter-century.

Did it used to be bad? They run their own food service out of their
food-related majors. It's not entirely local ingredients and such,
but some of it is. It all seemed substantially better than the schools
that have third party contractors.

It wasn't bad, but it wasn't any better than, say, Hometown Buffet.

[Don Martinich]

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Either your son has different tastes or the UCD food has changed
in the last quarter-century.

Did it used to be bad? They run their own food service out of their
food-related majors. It's not entirely local ingredients and such,
but some of it is. It all seemed substantially better than the schools
that have third party contractors.

Well, it looks like they are trying for more variety and they say they
are promoting sustainability and good nutrition. I haven't eaten there
in 3 or 4 years but the food service is still run by Sodexo
http://www.sodexousa.com/ . So, I'm a little skeptical. It's probably
better than when Saga food services ran it when I was a student. Another
alternative is a goodly number of food outlets (of many flavors) within
walking/biking distance from the central campus and the dorms. There
seem to be a lot of special price promotions to attract the student
trade.

D.M.
UCDavis '74

[Todd Michel McComb]

Post by Don Martinich
Well, it looks like they are trying for more variety and they say
they are promoting sustainability and good nutrition. I haven't
eaten there in 3 or 4 years but the food service is still run by
Sodexo http://www.sodexousa.com/ . So, I'm a little skeptical.

Hmm, well, I'm just going by what I was told regarding how it is
organized there. Apparently I'm not too clear on the details.

Regarding skepticism, I can't say, since having to eat the food
every day is the real test, but it sure seemed better than other
schools we visited.

[Don Martinich]

Post by Steve Fenwick
In article

Post by Don Martinich
Well, it looks like they are trying for more variety and they say
they are promoting sustainability and good nutrition. I haven't
eaten there in 3 or 4 years but the food service is still run by
Sodexo http://www.sodexousa.com/ . So, I'm a little skeptical.

Hmm, well, I'm just going by what I was told regarding how it is
organized there. Apparently I'm not too clear on the details.
Regarding skepticism, I can't say, since having to eat the food
every day is the real test, but it sure seemed better than other
schools we visited.

As I said, I haven't eaten on campus for a while so I can't really
criticize. I was just demonstrating my low opinion of corporate food
services. Decent food on campus would be a real morale boost for dorm
dwellers and I hope they are getting it.

D.M.

[Tim May]

Post by Don Martinich
As I said, I haven't eaten on campus for a while so I can't really
criticize. I was just demonstrating my low opinion of corporate food
services. Decent food on campus would be a real morale boost for dorm
dwellers and I hope they are getting it.

"Tonight at 11: Better campus food turns the "Freshman 15" into the
"Freshman 25."

When I entered UCSB 1970, the food was pretty good. Especially given
the variety. If the enchiladas didn't look so great, there were
burgers. And salad bars. And blueberry yogurt (which I'd never
had--consider the times).

And one of my roommates the following year did indeed put on 20-30
pounds. The following year he was on strict orders from his parents to
control his eating better. (After college he took up long distance
running and was almost thin when I saw him several years ago.)

[tutall]

Post by Todd Michel McComb
When I say my son picked UC Davis for the food, he sometimes objects,
but he's not here to speak up for himself.

<raised eyebrow>  Either your son has different tastes or the UCD food
has changed in the last quarter-century.
--

It's changed, enormously. What Todd is seeing at UCD is pretty much
the norm at campus' across the west as far as we could tell.

[Peter Lawrence]

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by SMS
Last week we visited a university in Flagstaff Arizona. They had
an amazingly good all you can eat food court with Italian, Pizza,
Mongolian BBQ, Burgers/Fries/Chili, Salads, Sandwiches, and Comfort
Food.

When I say my son picked UC Davis for the food, he sometimes objects,
but he's not here to speak up for himself.

He doesn't have access to Usenet?

UC Davis is a fine school, nevertheless. He made a good choice (even if his
criteria for selecting it might have been questionable). ;)


- Peter

[Todd Michel McComb]

Post by Peter Lawrence
He doesn't have access to Usenet?

I suppose everyone does in principle....

Post by Peter Lawrence
UC Davis is a fine school, nevertheless. He made a good choice
(even if his criteria for selecting it might have been questionable). ;)

He does like it for other reasons. But we'll see. The main issue
is exactly what I warned him about, namely the state budget. It's
a rather shaky time to opt for a public university, so we'll see
if he can afford to finish. Or if UC is even still in existence!

[Peter Lawrence]

Post by SMS

Post by Al Eisner
Actually, I jsut checked their web page, and your information is wrong.
The cost is about $9, not $14; and you're not required to order both the
sandwich and the soup, so a student can get by more cheaply.

What are the dining options like on the Stanford campus these days? I
remember when Stanford had a particularly horrible food service company
called "Servomation." They had that same company at the university I went to.

It's a lot better than in the distant past (when I was college age).

There are small specialty eateries, like the three mini-Coupa Cafes
scattered around the students residence areas at Stanford. Nothing that's
really Michelin star worthy, but still a substantial improvement from
yesteryear.


- Peter

[Al Eisner]

Post by Peter Lawrence

Post by SMS

Post by Al Eisner
Actually, I jsut checked their web page, and your information is wrong.
The cost is about $9, not $14; and you're not required to order both the
sandwich and the soup, so a student can get by more cheaply.

What are the dining options like on the Stanford campus these days? I
remember when Stanford had a particularly horrible food service company
called "Servomation." They had that same company at the university I went to.

It's a lot better than in the distant past (when I was college age).
There are small specialty eateries, like the three mini-Coupa Cafes scattered
around the students residence areas at Stanford. Nothing that's really
Michelin star worthy, but still a substantial improvement from yesteryear.
- Peter

There's a Cool Cafe at Stanford, open only for lunch Wed.-Sun. and an early
dinner on Thursday (acc. to their web page). I've had lunch at its sister
place in a Menlo Park business park, and found it to be very good for
that sort of lunch-only place.

[Todd Michel McComb]

Post by Al Eisner
There's a Cool Cafe at Stanford, open only for lunch Wed.-Sun. and
an early dinner on Thursday (acc. to their web page).

Is it part of the student meal plan?

[Al Eisner]

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Al Eisner
There's a Cool Cafe at Stanford, open only for lunch Wed.-Sun. and
an early dinner on Thursday (acc. to their web page).

Is it part of the student meal plan?

So far as I can tell, no. Of the various on-campus cafes --
http://www.stanford.edu/dept/visitorinfo/activities/dining.html --
only a handful owned by Stanford appear to be on the meal plan. (These
include Subway, which I guess is franchised.) For example, see
http://www.stanford.edu/dept/rde/cgi-bin/drupal/dining/undergraduate-meal-plans

But none of here is a Stanford student, right? So why should we care?

[Todd Michel McComb]

Post by Al Eisner
But none of here is a Stanford student, right? So why should we care?

I was still thinking of the topic in the context of my kids' school
choices and food options. I'm also vaguely interested in the
evolution of student food.

[Al Eisner]

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Al Eisner
But none of here is a Stanford student, right? So why should we care?

I was still thinking of the topic in the context of my kids' school
choices and food options. I'm also vaguely interested in the
evolution of student food.

Have you looked at Cornell recently? No personal or even second-hand
experience on my part, but they've had a good reputation. (Of course,
you get to live in mid-state New York!)

[Todd Michel McComb]

Post by Al Eisner
Have you looked at Cornell recently?

Not recently, but yes, I was aware that at least in the past, they
had very good services as provided (perhaps "provided" is wrong,
given what's been said about Davis) ... because of... their extensive
hospitality majors.

Closer, I'm told that the relatively new CS Monterey has rather
good food service.

[SMS]

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by Al Eisner
Have you looked at Cornell recently?

Not recently, but yes, I was aware that at least in the past, they
had very good services as provided (perhaps "provided" is wrong,
given what's been said about Davis) ... because of... their extensive
hospitality majors.

The key in choosing a college may be to choose one that has both the
major you want and a good hospitality program. And of course one that
has a good rock climbing wall. And that is either a state school or one
that participates in WUE (Western Undergraduate Exchange).

When we went on the tour at NAU last week they talked about the class
they have in wine and cheese, but you have to be 21 or older to take it.
They run what they claim is a five star restaurant on the edge of campus
<http://1899barandgrill.com/> which may be overstating it, but I can't
say because we didn't try it. It certainly isn't priced like a five star
restaurant.

Two other things the tour guides always seem to talk about on tours is
a) printing (the cost of it and ways to print for free), and b)
web-based laundry rooms where you can check if machines are available
and if your machine has stopped. But no cameras inside the machines so
you can watch your clothes going around.

[Todd Michel McComb]

Post by SMS
The key in choosing a college may be to choose one that has both the
major you want and a good hospitality program. And of course one that
has a good rock climbing wall. And that is either a state school or one
that participates in WUE (Western Undergraduate Exchange).

I just don't know about trusting that public schools will be
affordable these days. I like that my son wants to represent the
people of the state of California by attending UC. I think it's
honorable. But it's really going to hurt him financially. I don't
think my daughters are going to consider UC as a result. (I don't
really know what the political realities are in the exchange states,
other than vaguely, so maybe you're safe somewhere else.)

[SMS]

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by SMS
The key in choosing a college may be to choose one that has both the
major you want and a good hospitality program. And of course one that
has a good rock climbing wall. And that is either a state school or one
that participates in WUE (Western Undergraduate Exchange).

I just don't know about trusting that public schools will be
affordable these days. I like that my son wants to represent the
people of the state of California by attending UC. I think it's
honorable. But it's really going to hurt him financially. I don't
think my daughters are going to consider UC as a result. (I don't
really know what the political realities are in the exchange states,
other than vaguely, so maybe you're safe somewhere else.)

You're not safe anywhere really. We looked at NAU because a) it's one of
the few schools that has the major she wants (UC Santa Cruz is another)
and it's pretty affordable as those things go. With WUE, NAU it's less
expensive than UCSC, and they guarantee the cost for all four years.
Also they have much smaller classes and very few classes taught by
teaching assistants.

My daughter applied to Davis, and she'll probably get in, but personally
I hope she doesn't go there, at least not until Katehi resigns.

[Todd Michel McComb]

Post by SMS
You're not safe anywhere really.

Well, a lot of the private schools, such as Stanford and Harvard,
are free.

Post by SMS
With WUE, NAU it's less expensive than UCSC, and they guarantee
the cost for all four years.

A guarantee is nice, that's for sure.

Post by SMS
My daughter applied to Davis, and she'll probably get in, but
personally I hope she doesn't go there, at least not until Katehi
resigns.

My son was automatically admitted as a Regents Scholar just based
on numbers, which I think is one reason he didn't put much effort
into non-UC options.

Davis seems like a good fit for him, other than the price hikes and
the prospect of many more. I don't think the president saying
stupid stuff to the media has much, if any, effect on him.

[Peter Lawrence]

Post by Todd Michel McComb
Davis seems like a good fit for him, other than the price hikes and
the prospect of many more. I don't think the president saying
stupid stuff to the media has much, if any, effect on him.

I think it's extremely sad what has happened to California's public
universities. When I was college-aged (back in the early 1980's), the UC
System charge zero tuition to all California residents. They charged some
modest service "fees" (I think about $900 worth for a full school year,
IIRC). The major expenses for attending a UC school at that time was simply
room & board and the required text books for the courses.


- Peter

[spamtrap1888]

Post by Peter Lawrence

Post by Todd Michel McComb
Davis seems like a good fit for him, other than the price hikes and
the prospect of many more.  I don't think the president saying
stupid stuff to the media has much, if any, effect on him.

I think it's extremely sad what has happened to California's public
universities.  When I was college-aged (back in the early 1980's), the UC
System charge zero tuition to all California residents.  They charged some
modest service "fees" (I think about $900 worth for a full school year,
IIRC). The major expenses for attending a UC school at that time was simply
room & board and the required text books for the courses.

My guess is that California's prosperity was an artifact of the Cold
War. Between military contractors and military bases, California was a
net importer of Federal tax dollars. The "zero tuition" plan started
in the waning days of the Eisenhower administration, I believe.

Half the SV natives I worked with when I came had a dad who worked for
Lockheed, Loral, WJ, etc. You couldn't go to a coffee shop in
Sunnyvale without seeing uniformed service personnel. When the 1993
"peace dividend" came about, a bunch of those folks were let go. All
of the bases that ringed the bay were closed. The price of SV houses
dropped substantially, taking five years to recover.

[Aahz Maruch]

Post by spamtrap1888
My guess is that California's prosperity was an artifact of the Cold
War. Between military contractors and military bases, California was a
net importer of Federal tax dollars. The "zero tuition" plan started
in the waning days of the Eisenhower administration, I believe.
Half the SV natives I worked with when I came had a dad who worked for
Lockheed, Loral, WJ, etc. You couldn't go to a coffee shop in
Sunnyvale without seeing uniformed service personnel. When the 1993
"peace dividend" came about, a bunch of those folks were let go. All
of the bases that ringed the bay were closed. The price of SV houses
dropped substantially, taking five years to recover.

Depends where in Silicon Valley; they certainly didn't drop in Palo Alto.

[Steve Fenwick]

Post by Aahz Maruch

Post by spamtrap1888
My guess is that California's prosperity was an artifact of the Cold
War. Between military contractors and military bases, California was a
net importer of Federal tax dollars. The "zero tuition" plan started
in the waning days of the Eisenhower administration, I believe.
Half the SV natives I worked with when I came had a dad who worked for
Lockheed, Loral, WJ, etc. You couldn't go to a coffee shop in
Sunnyvale without seeing uniformed service personnel. When the 1993
"peace dividend" came about, a bunch of those folks were let go. All
of the bases that ringed the bay were closed. The price of SV houses
dropped substantially, taking five years to recover.

Depends where in Silicon Valley; they certainly didn't drop in Palo Alto.

We bought in Mountain View in 1992, after the market had dropped quite a
bit; I think it was already on the rise within three years.

Steve

[Steve Pope]

California's prosperity initially got a kick-start due to the land grab
and property grab from the former Spanish and Mexican owners. When
the U.S. grabbed California there was already a viable economy
built up and in place.

On topic, it is also why California has better food on average
than the rest of the U.S. -- the Mediterranean influence, as opposed
to the (gack) Anglo influence.



Steve

[spamtrap1888]

Post by Steve Pope
California's prosperity initially got a kick-start due to the land grab
and property grab from the former Spanish and Mexican owners.  When
the U.S. grabbed California there was already a viable economy
built up and in place.

An economy based on salted cattle hides and the labor of converts
hardly seems like a path to wealth. (When the US seized California,
the discovery of gold was still months in the future.)

Post by Steve Pope
On topic, it is also why California has better food on average
than the rest of the U.S. -- the Mediterranean influence, as opposed
to the (gack) Anglo influence.

Ah, the long lost californio cuisine. Much tastier than the pounded
acorn porridge of the original inhabitants.

[tutall]

Post by Peter Lawrence
I think it's extremely sad what has happened to California's public
universities.

You're not kidding. We sent ours to private as being about the same
cost-wise figuring they'll actually be able to graduate in 4 years or
less, rather than the 5 1/2 or so expected at a UC, and that's NOT
improving soon.

Cost will be slightly more, but they can start their post graduate
life @2 years sooner.

[Todd Michel McComb]

We sent ours to private as being about the same cost-wise figuring
they'll actually be able to graduate in 4 years or less, rather
than the 5 1/2 or so expected at a UC, and that's NOT improving
soon.

As a Regents Scholar, my son gets first choice of classes. That
really rubs me the wrong way, in terms of fairness and how things
should be, but it's something that makes attending UC more practical.

[SMS]

Post by tutall

Post by Peter Lawrence
I think it's extremely sad what has happened to California's public
universities.

You're not kidding. We sent ours to private as being about the same
cost-wise figuring they'll actually be able to graduate in 4 years or
less, rather than the 5 1/2 or so expected at a UC, and that's NOT
improving soon.

That's a big issue with UC. You don't have that problem as most of the
CSUs, and at NAU they made a big point of how they are able to get you
out in four years.

With the scholarships available at private schools they are often cost
competitive with UCs when you take into account the time it takes to
graduate.

[SMS]

Post by Peter Lawrence

Post by Todd Michel McComb
Davis seems like a good fit for him, other than the price hikes and
the prospect of many more. I don't think the president saying
stupid stuff to the media has much, if any, effect on him.

I think it's extremely sad what has happened to California's public
universities. When I was college-aged (back in the early 1980's), the UC
System charge zero tuition to all California residents. They charged
some modest service "fees" (I think about $900 worth for a full school
year, IIRC). The major expenses for attending a UC school at that time
was simply room & board and the required text books for the courses.

It's sad, but not unexpected.

The full effects of proposition 13 were delayed by a booming economy and
using budget surpluses to fund services. In fact we have still not seen
the full effects of proposition 13. Just wait until all those boomers
pass their houses, along with the prop 13 assessed value on to their
children who will be sending their own kids to public schools and
universities while paying a pittance in property tax.

Things will get even more expensive. Not that this is necessarily
unfair. Perhaps UC could implement a policy of allowing students to
deduct the amount that their parents pay in property tax from their tuition.

[spamtrap1888]

Post by SMS

Post by Peter Lawrence

Post by Todd Michel McComb
Davis seems like a good fit for him, other than the price hikes and
the prospect of many more. I don't think the president saying
stupid stuff to the media has much, if any, effect on him.

I think it's extremely sad what has happened to California's public
universities. When I was college-aged (back in the early 1980's), the UC
System charge zero tuition to all California residents. They charged
some modest service "fees" (I think about $900 worth for a full school
year, IIRC). The major expenses for attending a UC school at that time
was simply room & board and the required text books for the courses.

It's sad, but not unexpected.
The full effects of proposition 13 were delayed by a booming economy and
using budget surpluses to fund services. In fact we have still not seen
the full effects of proposition 13. Just wait until all those boomers
pass their houses, along with the prop 13 assessed value on to their
children who will be sending their own kids to public schools and
universities while paying a pittance in property tax.
Things will get even more expensive. Not that this is necessarily
unfair. Perhaps UC could implement a policy of allowing students to
deduct the amount that their parents pay in property tax from their tuition.

I do not see intergenerational transfer as a big issue. None of the
younger people I know have waited to start their families or live in a
house till their old folks entered the nursing home. On our block, the
seniors tend to die in their homes, except for the 90 yo guy whose
daughter made him live with them. Other old folks I know have sold
their houses outright to be able to afford to move, to say Placerville
or Paradise -- you can't take your basis to those counties. So if you
want a slower pace and a lower cost of living, you have to give up
your lower property tax.

[Steve Pope]

Post by SMS
It's sad, but not unexpected.
The full effects of proposition 13 were delayed by a booming economy and
using budget surpluses to fund services. In fact we have still not seen
the full effects of proposition 13. Just wait until all those boomers
pass their houses, along with the prop 13 assessed value on to their
children who will be sending their own kids to public schools and
universities while paying a pittance in property tax.
Things will get even more expensive. Not that this is necessarily
unfair. Perhaps UC could implement a policy of allowing students to
deduct the amount that their parents pay in property tax from their tuition.

Sorry, but Prop 13 has nothing to do with funding problems
in California schools. California's combined state and local tax rates
(relative to GDP) place it close to the top of all states.
Yet is spends relatively little on education.

Indeed, a big part of the problem is all the ill-informed harping
about Prop 13, rather than addressing the spending-side problems
that are keeping large volumes of tax money away from the schools:
Prisons, Caltrans, and (dare I say it) unions, who at this point
are more anti-labor than the general public.

The taxpayers are already doing their part. Squeezing them
more without addressing the greed factor will not accomplish
anything, the money will still be sucked away before it gets
to the schools.

Steve

[Marcella Peek]

Post by Peter Lawrence

Post by Todd Michel McComb
Davis seems like a good fit for him, other than the price hikes and
the prospect of many more. I don't think the president saying
stupid stuff to the media has much, if any, effect on him.

I think it's extremely sad what has happened to California's public
universities. When I was college-aged (back in the early 1980's), the UC
System charge zero tuition to all California residents. They charged some
modest service "fees" (I think about $900 worth for a full school year,
IIRC). The major expenses for attending a UC school at that time was simply
room & board and the required text books for the courses.
- Peter

What? You've been around since 1880? I graduated in 1983 and at the
time tuition for UCLA was about $3,000 a year. For a state school it
was about $800. Then there was dorms, food plan, books etc. The
schools were not tuition free.

marcella

[Aahz Maruch]

Post by Marcella Peek

Post by Peter Lawrence
I think it's extremely sad what has happened to California's public
universities. When I was college-aged (back in the early 1980's), the UC
System charge zero tuition to all California residents. They charged some
modest service "fees" (I think about $900 worth for a full school year,
IIRC). The major expenses for attending a UC school at that time was simply
room & board and the required text books for the courses.

What? You've been around since 1880? I graduated in 1983 and at the
time tuition for UCLA was about $3,000 a year. For a state school it
was about $800. Then there was dorms, food plan, books etc. The
schools were not tuition free.

You're both right, but Peter is more correct. There were no fees named
"tuition" if you were a state resident at the time I went to UCD -- but
you certainly paid some substantial fees to the school that were nearly
indistinguishable from tuition.

[Marcella Peek]

Post by Aahz Maruch

Post by Marcella Peek

Post by Peter Lawrence
I think it's extremely sad what has happened to California's public
universities. When I was college-aged (back in the early 1980's), the UC
System charge zero tuition to all California residents. They charged some
modest service "fees" (I think about $900 worth for a full school year,
IIRC). The major expenses for attending a UC school at that time was simply
room & board and the required text books for the courses.

What? You've been around since 1880? I graduated in 1983 and at the
time tuition for UCLA was about $3,000 a year. For a state school it
was about $800. Then there was dorms, food plan, books etc. The
schools were not tuition free.

You're both right, but Peter is more correct. There were no fees named
"tuition" if you were a state resident at the time I went to UCD -- but
you certainly paid some substantial fees to the school that were nearly
indistinguishable from tuition.

Nope.

When Ronald Reagan was governor of California (1967 - 1975) he
introduced tuition to UC's (as well as other cost cutting measures
around the state, sigh)

While the schools were initially founded to be "tuition free" it's been
a very long time since that was the case.

marcella

[spamtrap1888]

Post by Marcella Peek

Post by Peter Lawrence
I think it's extremely sad what has happened to California's public
universities.  When I was college-aged (back in the early 1980's), the UC
System charge zero tuition to all California residents.  They charged some
modest service "fees" (I think about $900 worth for a full school year,
IIRC). The major expenses for attending a UC school at that time was simply
room & board and the required text books for the courses.

What?  You've been around since 1880?  I graduated in 1983 and at the
time tuition for UCLA was about $3,000 a year.  For a state school it
was about $800.  Then there was dorms, food plan, books etc.  The
schools were not tuition free.

You're both right, but Peter is more correct.  There were no fees named
"tuition" if you were a state resident at the time I went to UCD -- but
you certainly paid some substantial fees to the school that were nearly
indistinguishable from tuition.

Nope.
When Ronald Reagan was governor of California (1967 - 1975) he
introduced tuition to UC's (as well as other cost cutting measures
around the state, sigh)
While the schools were initially founded to be "tuition free" it's been
a very long time since that was the case.

Since 1960, California's university fees gradually evolved,
apparently, from covering the cost of items incidental to instruction
to covering part of the cost of instruction (the original sense of the
word tuition is instruction) itself. The 1960 Master Plan ratified the
"tuition-free" policy.

Unfamiliar with the "tuition-free" policy, I remember being surprised
on a visit in 1982 that UCB sold their course schedules in the
bookstore.

[jcdill]

Post by Peter Lawrence
I think it's extremely sad what has happened to California's public
universities. When I was college-aged (back in the early 1980's), the UC
System charge zero tuition to all California residents.

It's still zero "tuition". What has changed...

Post by Peter Lawrence
They charged
some modest service "fees"

Is the amount of all those "service fees" has gone thru the roof.

Because they don't charge tuition, vets couldn't get their tuition^w
fees paid with the GI bill. There was a big to-do over this a few years
ago. The state decided to change the description of what they bill the
VA for "educational fee/tuition" so that the fees would be covered by
the GI Bill's tuition payment program.

http://www.military.com/news/article/fixing-new-gi-bill-california-tuition-glitch.html

jc

[Steve Fenwick]

In article

Post by Al Eisner
Two new restaurants opening at the Stanford Shopping Center, both along
the side closest to Sand Hill Rd., at the location of what was formerly a

Smith & Hawken. Crate & Barrel is back by Nordstrom.

Stanford Mall used to have good food (Max's in the old days; Sandy's
Kitchen) many, many bizbees ago. Palo Alto Creamery still has good
ambience (outside, anyway) and decent corned beef hash, but that's about
it for food there now.

Steve

[David Arnstein]

Post by Steve Fenwick
Stanford Mall used to have good food (Max's in the old days; Sandy's
Kitchen) many, many bizbees ago. Palo Alto Creamery still has good
ambience (outside, anyway) and decent corned beef hash, but that's about
it for food there now.

I had one good visit to Cocola Bakery. I enjoyed their pastry. I think
the espresso was good too, but my memory is not clear. I plan to go
back.

[Peter Lawrence]

Post by Steve Fenwick
Stanford Mall used to have good food (Max's in the old days; Sandy's
Kitchen) many, many bizbees ago. Palo Alto Creamery still has good
ambience (outside, anyway) and decent corned beef hash, but that's about
it for food there now.

Au contraire, there's still a variety of good eats at Stanford Shopping
Center. Fleming's steakhouse actually has an excellent happy hour deal,
their “5 For $6 ’Til 7” bar menu featuring 5 appetizers, 5 premium cocktails
and 5 wines by the glass for $6 each, served until 7PM every night.

The Neiman Marcus Cafe on the top floor of NM is surprisingly good (who
would of thought?). Gourmet Franks is still in business after all this
years and still serving up pretty decent hot dogs and sausages (though I've
definitely had better elsewhere).

The pastries, breads, and sandwiches are excellent at La Baguette.

A relatively newcomer, Cocola Bakery also offers excellent pastries and
deserts (but their sandwiches and salads just so, so). And for sheer
indulgence, nothing beats the champagne truffles from Teuscher.

And I would be remiss if I didn't mention the excellent deli sandwiches that
are available at Schaub's.


- Peter

[spamtrap1888]

Post by Peter Lawrence

Post by Steve Fenwick
Stanford Mall used to have good food (Max's in the old days; Sandy's
Kitchen) many, many bizbees ago. Palo Alto Creamery still has good
ambience (outside, anyway) and decent corned beef hash, but that's about
it for food there now.

Au contraire, there's still a variety of good eats at Stanford Shopping
Center.  Fleming's steakhouse actually has an excellent happy hour deal,
their “5 For $6 ’Til 7” bar menu featuring 5 appetizers, 5 premium cocktails
and 5 wines by the glass for $6 each, served until 7PM every night.
The Neiman Marcus Cafe on the top floor of NM is surprisingly good (who
would of thought?).  Gourmet Franks is still in business after all this
years and still serving up pretty decent hot dogs and sausages (though I've
definitely had better elsewhere).
The pastries, breads, and sandwiches are excellent at La Baguette.
A relatively newcomer, Cocola Bakery also offers excellent pastries and
deserts (but their sandwiches and salads just so, so).  And for sheer
indulgence, nothing beats the champagne truffles from Teuscher.
And I would be remiss if I didn't mention the excellent deli sandwiches that
are available at Schaub's.

I will dare to suggest another. We rendezvous with an older couple for
dinner every year at Christmas. They live in Palo Alto and do not like
to roam far from home. A couple of years ago, they picked P.F.
Chang's. Still remembering Chester's evaluation of "ointless " "
ucking," I didn't expect much. But the restaurant was pleasant, and
the food surprisingly tasty and good value. Just the sort of place you
want for a break from shopping.

[Julian Macassey]

On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 09:05:36 -0800 (PST), spamtrap1888

Post by spamtrap1888
I will dare to suggest another. We rendezvous with an older couple for
dinner every year at Christmas. They live in Palo Alto and do not like
to roam far from home. A couple of years ago, they picked P.F.
Chang's. Still remembering Chester's evaluation of "ointless " "
ucking," I didn't expect much. But the restaurant was pleasant, and
the food surprisingly tasty and good value. Just the sort of place you
want for a break from shopping.

P.F. Chang's is the sort of place that serves food that
people in the Midwest would call Chinese.

The fact that they have a large bar should convince you
as to the quality of the food.

If you ever see the words "Chinese" and "Coctails" on the
same sign, keep driving.

[sms88]

Post by Julian Macassey
P.F. Chang's is the sort of place that serves food that
people in the Midwest would call Chinese.

Except that in the midwest you'd be better off at P.F. Chang's or Panda
Express than one of the local Chinese restaurants.

I recall that Darden, the company that owns Olive Garden and Red Lobster
at one time had a chain of Chinese restaurants called "China Coast." It
only made sense to expand from bad Italian and bad seafood into bad
Chinese. It didn't work out.
<http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1995-08-23/business/9508230109_1_darden-restaurants-china-coast-coast-restaurants>

[spamtrap1888]

Post by sms88

   P.F. Chang's is the sort of place that serves food that
people in the Midwest would call Chinese.

Except that in the midwest you'd be better off at P.F. Chang's or Panda
Express than one of the local Chinese restaurants.

You can't put those two in the same bin. It would be like saying you'd
be better off at Buca di Beppo (Maggiano's?) or Sbarro's than one of
the local Italian restaurants.

Post by sms88
I recall that Darden, the company that owns Olive Garden and Red Lobster
at one time had a chain of Chinese restaurants called "China Coast." It
only made sense to expand from bad Italian and bad seafood into bad
Chinese. It didn't work out.

Bad steakhouses would have seemed the way to go.

[Julian Macassey]

On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 10:05:55 -0800 (PST), spamtrap1888

Post by spamtrap1888
Bad steakhouses would have seemed the way to go.

Outhouse steakhouse and Sizzler have that part of the
market sewn up.

[David Arnstein]

Post by Julian Macassey
Outhouse steakhouse and Sizzler have that part of the
market sewn up.

The most expensive steak at Outback (Victoria) is quite good. The other
steaks I have tried there all dried out before I could gobble them up.

[Peter Lawrence]

Post by David Arnstein

Post by Julian Macassey
Outhouse steakhouse and Sizzler have that part of the
market sewn up.

The most expensive steak at Outback (Victoria) is quite good. The other
steaks I have tried there all dried out before I could gobble them up.

The steaks I've ordered at Outback, usually the porterhouse, rib-eye or New
York strip, have always been very good. Never had them dry out before
finishing them off (maybe I just gobble them up faster than you do). As
chains go, Outback is pretty decent if you don't mind the excess noise.

Julian is just an anti-Chainite. He hates all restaurant chains. ;)


- Peter

[Julian Macassey]

Post by Peter Lawrence
Julian is just an anti-Chainite. He hates all restaurant chains. ;)

And for good reason.

[Tim May]

Post by Julian Macassey

Post by Peter Lawrence
Julian is just an anti-Chainite. He hates all restaurant chains. ;)

And for good reason.

Nothing wrong with anti-Canaanites.

Tell the six million to head to the shores and then swim west.

(Funny, whenever the "six million" number is invoked, there are way
more than six million left after the putative annilation of the "six
million." The "six million" were totally annihilated in WW II, we are
told, and yet 9 million were newly arrived in the U.S., other parts of
Europe, etc.

Some kind of Jew magic?

[Ciccio]

Post by sms88

   P.F. Chang's is the sort of place that serves food that
people in the Midwest would call Chinese.

Except that in the midwest you'd be better off at P.F. Chang's or Panda
Express than one of the local Chinese restaurants.

One of the best Chinese meals I've ever had was in a restaurant
in...Leavenworth, KS.

Ciccio

[Al Eisner]

Post by Ciccio

Post by sms88

   P.F. Chang's is the sort of place that serves food that
people in the Midwest would call Chinese.

Except that in the midwest you'd be better off at P.F. Chang's or Panda
Express than one of the local Chinese restaurants.

One of the best Chinese meals I've ever had was in a restaurant

Inside or outside you-know-what? Inqiring minds want to know. :)

[Ciccio]

Inside or outside you-know-what?  Inqiring minds want to know.  :)

Heh. You-know-what doesn't have a restaurant. Though, I did have a
meal there. The Chinese restaurant I'm referring to was about a mile
or two east from you-know-what. There I had a Szechuan lamb dish that
blew the doors off most Chinese dishes I've had in the BA.

Ciccio

[spamtrap1888]

Post by Julian Macassey
On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 09:05:36 -0800 (PST), spamtrap1888

Post by spamtrap1888
I will dare to suggest another. We rendezvous with an older couple for
dinner every year at Christmas. They live in Palo Alto and do not like
to roam far from home. A couple of years ago, they picked P.F.
Chang's. Still remembering Chester's evaluation of "ointless " "
ucking," I didn't expect much. But the restaurant was pleasant, and
the food surprisingly tasty and good value. Just the sort of place you
want for a break from shopping.

        P.F. Chang's is the sort of place that serves food that
people in the Midwest would call Chinese.
        The fact that they have a large bar should convince you
as to the quality of the food.

Julian arguing against large bars in restaurants -- I will have to
remember this day. But authenticity is not my only goal when I am
having dinner. I paid my dues eating sea cucumber clay pot at Ton
Kiang, back where you could park behind the restaurant, where you
could see your dinner possibilities swimming around in tanks. (In
their new location they serve bad dim sum to white people.)

Post by Julian Macassey
        If you ever see the words "Chinese" and "Coctails" on the
same sign, keep driving.

I have been to such neighborhood palaces in Chicago: one large
rectangular room, with one corner of the restaurant turned into a bar.
The food there was neither authentic nor tasty.

[Todd Michel McComb]

Post by spamtrap1888
A couple of years ago, they picked P.F.
Chang's. Still remembering Chester's evaluation of "ointless " "
ucking," I didn't expect much. But the restaurant was pleasant, and
the food surprisingly tasty and good value.

Pointless Fucking Chang's called a good value. Now I've truly seen
everything. It's literally twice the price of a typical Chinese
restaurant, for worse food.

But authenticity is not my only goal when I am having dinner.

Most often, authenticity is not a goal I have at all when eating.

Occasionally, I do like to do some research on the point, though.

[spamtrap1888]

Post by spamtrap1888
A couple of years ago, they picked P.F.
Chang's. Still remembering Chester's evaluation of "ointless " "
ucking," I didn't expect much. But the restaurant was pleasant, and
the food surprisingly tasty and good value.

Pointless Fucking Chang's called a good value.  Now I've truly seen
everything.  It's literally twice the price of a typical Chinese
restaurant, for worse food.

Twice the price? Please let me know where I can get this deal for $10
a person:

http://www.pfchangs.com/menu/?sid=9911

But authenticity is not my only goal when I am having dinner.

Most often, authenticity is not a goal I have at all when eating.
Occasionally, I do like to do some research on the point, though.

If you have a list of places both authentic and good I would like to
see it.

[Todd Michel McComb]

Post by spamtrap1888
Twice the price? Please let me know where I can get this deal for
http://www.pfchangs.com/menu/?sid=3D9911

Twice the price would be an exaggeration. That URL just showed me
a general menu with lots of prices on it, so I'm not sure what I'm
comparing, but I can imagine they have some sort of group menu at
a decent price point (if that's what it is).

Post by spamtrap1888
If you have a list of places both authentic and good I would like to
see it.

As noted, I'm not someone to ask about authentic, since I don't care.

[SMS]

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by spamtrap1888
Twice the price? Please let me know where I can get this deal for
http://www.pfchangs.com/menu/?sid=3D9911

Twice the price would be an exaggeration.

Not by much. Maybe 1.75x, but definitely more than 1.5x.

[spamtrap1888]

Post by SMS

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by spamtrap1888
Twice the price? Please let me know where I can get this deal for
http://www.pfchangs.com/menu/?sid=3D9911

Twice the price would be an exaggeration.

Not by much. Maybe 1.75x, but definitely more than 1.5x.

OK, let me know where I can get this deal for $15 a person.

[Al Eisner]

Post by spamtrap1888

Post by SMS

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by spamtrap1888
Twice the price? Please let me know where I can get this deal for
http://www.pfchangs.com/menu/?sid=3D9911

Twice the price would be an exaggeration.

Not by much. Maybe 1.75x, but definitely more than 1.5x.

OK, let me know where I can get this deal for $15 a person.

What "deal" are you talking about? You've posted a link to a menu.
To take one example, almost all the chicken dishes are $14, compared
to $8.50 at my usual takeout place (Crouching Tiger in Redwood City,
which itself isn't really a cheap place).

I won't address quality, since it's been too many years since I tried
PFC (not in Palo Alto) and was quite unimpressed by the flaovrs of
the food.

[spamtrap1888]

Post by spamtrap1888

Post by SMS

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by spamtrap1888
Twice the price? Please let me know where I can get this deal for
http://www.pfchangs.com/menu/?sid=3D9911

Twice the price would be an exaggeration.

Not by much. Maybe 1.75x, but definitely more than 1.5x.

OK, let me know where I can get this deal for $15 a person.

What "deal" are you talking about?  You've posted a link to a menu.
To take one example, almost all the chicken dishes are $14, compared
to $8.50 at my usual takeout place (Crouching Tiger in Redwood City,
which itself isn't really a cheap place).
I won't address quality, since it's been too many years since I tried
PFC (not in Palo Alto) and was quite unimpressed by the flaovrs of
the food.

Sorry, try this link:

http://www.pfchangs.com/menu/PrinterFriendlySection.aspx?sid=9911&menu=P.F.%20Chang%27s%20For%20Two&mid=7

[Al Eisner]

Post by spamtrap1888

Post by spamtrap1888

Post by SMS

Post by Todd Michel McComb

Post by spamtrap1888
Twice the price? Please let me know where I can get this deal for
http://www.pfchangs.com/menu/?sid=3D9911

Twice the price would be an exaggeration.

Not by much. Maybe 1.75x, but definitely more than 1.5x.

OK, let me know where I can get this deal for $15 a person.

What "deal" are you talking about?  You've posted a link to a menu.
To take one example, almost all the chicken dishes are $14, compared
to $8.50 at my usual takeout place (Crouching Tiger in Redwood City,
which itself isn't really a cheap place).
I won't address quality, since it's been too many years since I tried
PFC (not in Palo Alto) and was quite unimpressed by the flaovrs of
the food.

http://www.pfchangs.com/menu/PrinterFriendlySection.aspx?sid=9911&menu=P.F.%20Chang%27s%20For%20Two&mid=7

Well, obviously, every business has its own "deals" which it crafts in such a
way that no other business has something precisely equivalent. What I can
say, however, that $40 for two is way more than one should have to pay for
a meal in a Chinese restaurant. You could argue that it's a "four-course
meal" but that's only an out if you agree that they are serving you way more
food than two people need. I remain entirely unimpressed.

[Peter Lawrence]

Post by Julian Macassey
If you ever see the words "Chinese" and "Coctails" on the
same sign, keep driving.

Got to disagree with this. I've been to a number of Chinese restaurants
that advertized Cocktails on their outdoor sign (or via a neon sign) that
served pretty decent Chinese food. Though I've been to ones that also
served very bad Chinese food.

So to me, a cocktail sign (or a large bar) is neither an indicator of bad
Chinese food or good. Actually, I think it's sad nowadays that so few
Chinese restaurants come equipped with a good full service bar or lounge.
Miss those days.


- Peter

[Al Eisner]

Post by Julian Macassey
If you ever see the words "Chinese" and "Coctails" on the
same sign, keep driving.

Got to disagree with this. I've been to a number of Chinese restaurants that
advertized Cocktails on their outdoor sign (or via a neon sign) that served
pretty decent Chinese food. Though I've been to ones that also served very
bad Chinese food.
So to me, a cocktail sign (or a large bar) is neither an indicator of bad
Chinese food or good. Actually, I think it's sad nowadays that so few
Chinese restaurants come equipped with a good full service bar or lounge.
Miss those days.

Yes, yes, that's all very well. But what about a "coctail" sign? You
didn't address that case.

[Al Eisner]

Post by Peter Lawrence

Post by Steve Fenwick
Stanford Mall used to have good food (Max's in the old days; Sandy's
Kitchen) many, many bizbees ago. Palo Alto Creamery still has good
ambience (outside, anyway) and decent corned beef hash, but that's about
it for food there now.

Au contraire, there's still a variety of good eats at Stanford Shopping
Center. Fleming's steakhouse actually has an excellent happy hour deal,
their ?5 For $6 ?Til 7? bar menu featuring 5 appetizers, 5 premium cocktails
and 5 wines by the glass for $6 each, served until 7PM every night.
The Neiman Marcus Cafe on the top floor of NM is surprisingly good (who would
of thought?). Gourmet Franks is still in business after all this years and
still serving up pretty decent hot dogs and sausages (though I've definitely
had better elsewhere).

I'm not surprised about Neiman-Marcus, but I've yet to try it. Gourmet Franks
seems overpriced for what one gets -- neither authentic (NY or Chicago)
experiences nor adequate portions.

Post by Peter Lawrence
The pastries, breads, and sandwiches are excellent at La Baguette.
A relatively newcomer, Cocola Bakery also offers excellent pastries and
deserts (but their sandwiches and salads just so, so). And for sheer
indulgence, nothing beats the champagne truffles from Teuscher.

I agree with your assessment, and would only add that I'm turned off by
the prices on the pastries compared to other places. I'd rather walk
over to La Baguette (which, however, often suffers from long lines).

Also, Cocola replaced the Oakville Grocery, which had an excellent cheese
department (diminishing toward the end) and the best sandwiches in the
area, bar none. Another favorite which closed about the same time,
Long-life Noodles has been replaced by something far worse. To me,
those two closings made a big difference in dining options at the
Stanford Center.

I am glad that you had the good taste to not mention P.F.Chang's.... :)

I am cautiously optimistic about Yucca de Lac -- it could be in a different
class than nearly all of the rest.

Post by Peter Lawrence
And I would be remiss if I didn't mention the excellent deli sandwiches that
are available at Schaub's.

[Peter Lawrence]

Post by Al Eisner
I am glad that you had the good taste to not mention P.F.Chang's.... :)

My mother and her friends enjoy P.F Chang's a lot. I don't.

For "Americanized" Chinese food, I can't think of a better place on the
mid-Peninsula than Chef Chu's in Los Altos. Don't go there looking for
home-style or truly authentic Chinese dishes. But Chef Chu's does use
first-rate quality ingredients in their preparations and their cooks know
how to cook the food without being overly greasy, soggy, or overly bland.

Also every item on their menu has been "sanitized" for the typical American
taste bud, so it's safe for your aunt from Omaha to order *any* item off
their menu. No menu item will be repugnant (either by looks or taste) to a
traditional Midwesterner's sensibilities.


- Peter

[spamtrap1888]

Post by Al Eisner
I am glad that you had the good taste to not mention P.F.Chang's.... :)

My mother and her friends enjoy P.F Chang's a lot.  I don't.
For "Americanized" Chinese food, I can't think of a better place on the
mid-Peninsula than Chef Chu's in Los Altos.  Don't go there looking for
home-style or truly authentic Chinese dishes.  But Chef Chu's does use
first-rate quality ingredients in their preparations and their cooks know
how to cook the food without being overly greasy, soggy, or overly bland.
Also every item on their menu has been "sanitized" for the typical American
taste bud, so it's safe for your aunt from Omaha to order *any* item off
their menu. No menu item will be repugnant (either by looks or taste) to a
traditional Midwesterner's sensibilities.

Never again. The last time we went, they sat our small gathering next
to a huge office party upstairs. And P.F. Chang's food tasted better.

[SMS]

Post by Al Eisner
I am glad that you had the good taste to not mention P.F.Chang's.... :)

My mother and her friends enjoy P.F Chang's a lot. I don't.
For "Americanized" Chinese food, I can't think of a better place on the
mid-Peninsula than Chef Chu's in Los Altos. Don't go there looking for
home-style or truly authentic Chinese dishes. But Chef Chu's does use
first-rate quality ingredients in their preparations and their cooks
know how to cook the food without being overly greasy, soggy, or overly
bland.

Probably true. P.F. Chang's and Chef Chu's are actually pretty similar
in the type of food they serve but I think it's prepared better, and
with better ingredients, at Chef Chu's.

The restaurant that amazes me is Ming's. They went from a terrible,
over-priced, Americanized Chinese restaurant to a very good restaurant.
My wife's late father worked there in the 1970's when they bused Chinese
workers from SF to Palo Alto and put them up in housing near the
restaurant. He was an excellent chef and it broke his heart to see the
food he was required to prepare at Ming's back then. The new owners
really turned it around.

[Al Eisner]

Post by SMS
The restaurant that amazes me is Ming's. They went from a terrible,
over-priced, Americanized Chinese restaurant to a very good restaurant.

When did that happen, and why did no-one tell us?

Post by SMS
My
wife's late father worked there in the 1970's when they bused Chinese workers
from SF to Palo Alto and put them up in housing near the restaurant. He was
an excellent chef and it broke his heart to see the food he was required to
prepare at Ming's back then. The new owners really turned it around.

[SMS]

Post by Al Eisner

Post by SMS
The restaurant that amazes me is Ming's. They went from a terrible,
over-priced, Americanized Chinese restaurant to a very good restaurant.

When did that happen, and why did no-one tell us?

1991. It was widely reported.

The kept some of the original American dishes like chicken salad and
Ming's beef.

I never went back there until my old boss, from Taiwan, took me there
for lunch a few years back. I also went to a wedding banquet there a few
years ago. What a difference compared to the old Ming's. Of course the
old Ming's served what they thought white people wanted to eat. Just
like Chef Chu's and P.F. Chang's do now.

[Aahz Maruch]

Post by Peter Lawrence
For "Americanized" Chinese food, I can't think of a better place on the
mid-Peninsula than Chef Chu's in Los Altos. Don't go there looking for
home-style or truly authentic Chinese dishes. But Chef Chu's does use
first-rate quality ingredients in their preparations and their cooks know
how to cook the food without being overly greasy, soggy, or overly bland.
Also every item on their menu has been "sanitized" for the typical American
taste bud, so it's safe for your aunt from Omaha to order *any* item off
their menu. No menu item will be repugnant (either by looks or taste) to a
traditional Midwesterner's sensibilities.

Dan dan noodles? (Hrm, doesn't seem to be on their current menu, but
I've certainly had them at Chef Chu's in the past.)

[Steve Fenwick]

In article

Post by Al Eisner

Post by Peter Lawrence

Post by Steve Fenwick
Stanford Mall used to have good food (Max's in the old days; Sandy's
Kitchen) many, many bizbees ago. Palo Alto Creamery still has good
ambience (outside, anyway) and decent corned beef hash, but that's about
it for food there now.

Au contraire, there's still a variety of good eats at Stanford Shopping
Center. Fleming's steakhouse actually has an excellent happy hour deal,
their ?5 For $6 ?Til 7? bar menu featuring 5 appetizers, 5 premium cocktails
and 5 wines by the glass for $6 each, served until 7PM every night.

I've looked at the menu outside Fleming's a few times, and am having
trouble getting around the feeling that it's the steakhouse version of
P.F. Chang's. You mention the price--is the food good? Or can you easily
believe that it comes from big bags from Sysco?

Post by Al Eisner

Post by Peter Lawrence
The pastries, breads, and sandwiches are excellent at La Baguette.

La Baguette isn't where I'd normally go for a meal, but they do often
have long lines.

Post by Al Eisner

Post by Peter Lawrence
A relatively newcomer, Cocola Bakery also offers excellent pastries and
deserts (but their sandwiches and salads just so, so). And for sheer
indulgence, nothing beats the champagne truffles from Teuscher.

I agree with your assessment, and would only add that I'm turned off by
the prices on the pastries compared to other places. I'd rather walk
over to La Baguette (which, however, often suffers from long lines).

I've been away since Cocola opened, I think. Or I skipped it, as we have
lost much use for the area back there since we stopped going to Max's.

Post by Al Eisner
Also, Cocola replaced the Oakville Grocery, which had an excellent cheese
department (diminishing toward the end) and the best sandwiches in the
area, bar none. Another favorite which closed about the same time,
Long-life Noodles has been replaced by something far worse. To me,
those two closings made a big difference in dining options at the
Stanford Center.
I am glad that you had the good taste to not mention P.F.Chang's.... :)
I am cautiously optimistic about Yucca de Lac -- it could be in a different
class than nearly all of the rest.

Post by Peter Lawrence
And I would be remiss if I didn't mention the excellent deli sandwiches that
are available at Schaub's.

Again, take-out sandwiches. Compare and contrast with the excellent
comfort food at Sandy's or the early 90s Max's.

Steve

[Peter Lawrence]

Post by Steve Fenwick
In article

Post by Al Eisner

Post by Peter Lawrence

Post by Steve Fenwick
Stanford Mall used to have good food (Max's in the old days; Sandy's
Kitchen) many, many bizbees ago. Palo Alto Creamery still has good
ambience (outside, anyway) and decent corned beef hash, but that's about
it for food there now.

Au contraire, there's still a variety of good eats at Stanford Shopping
Center. Fleming's steakhouse actually has an excellent happy hour deal,
their ?5 For $6 ?Til 7? bar menu featuring 5 appetizers, 5 premium cocktails
and 5 wines by the glass for $6 each, served until 7PM every night.

I've looked at the menu outside Fleming's a few times, and am having
trouble getting around the feeling that it's the steakhouse version of
P.F. Chang's. You mention the price--is the food good? Or can you easily
believe that it comes from big bags from Sysco?

The appetizers are fine, as are the cocktails, and the steaks. As
steakhouses go, it's not as good as Alexander's, but pretty comparable to
Sundance down the street on El Camino. In my eyes, it's a quality
establishment, even though it's a chain.

Post by Steve Fenwick

Post by Al Eisner

Post by Peter Lawrence
The pastries, breads, and sandwiches are excellent at La Baguette.

La Baguette isn't where I'd normally go for a meal, but they do often
have long lines.

Post by Al Eisner

Post by Peter Lawrence
A relatively newcomer, Cocola Bakery also offers excellent pastries and
deserts (but their sandwiches and salads just so, so). And for sheer
indulgence, nothing beats the champagne truffles from Teuscher.

I agree with your assessment, and would only add that I'm turned off by
the prices on the pastries compared to other places. I'd rather walk
over to La Baguette (which, however, often suffers from long lines).

I've been away since Cocola opened, I think. Or I skipped it, as we have
lost much use for the area back there since we stopped going to Max's.

Post by Al Eisner
Also, Cocola replaced the Oakville Grocery, which had an excellent cheese
department (diminishing toward the end) and the best sandwiches in the
area, bar none. Another favorite which closed about the same time,
Long-life Noodles has been replaced by something far worse. To me,
those two closings made a big difference in dining options at the
Stanford Center.
I am glad that you had the good taste to not mention P.F.Chang's.... :)
I am cautiously optimistic about Yucca de Lac -- it could be in a different
class than nearly all of the rest.

Post by Peter Lawrence
And I would be remiss if I didn't mention the excellent deli sandwiches that
are available at Schaub's.

Again, take-out sandwiches. Compare and contrast with the excellent
comfort food at Sandy's or the early 90s Max's.

I also did mention Neiman Marcus Cafe, a sit-down eatery if your prefer
that. IMHO the food at NM Cafe is better than Max (even the Max of the
early '90's), and far better than what was ever served at Sandy's.

Frankly, I don't understand your fond memories of Sandy's Kitchen. I
remember dining at Sandy's when I was still a wee little lad back in the
late 1960's, and even as a child I wasn't impressed with them. The only
saving grace to Sandy's was that they served better food than the lunch
counter at the shopping center's Woolworth. But I preferred the food at
Stickney's at T&C Village over Sandy's as a kid. And far better than both
of them was Blum's, located at Stanford Shopping Center next door to the I.
Magnin department store (now the Macy's Men Store at Stanford).


- Peter

[Al Eisner]

Post by Steve Fenwick
In article

Post by Al Eisner
Two new restaurants opening at the Stanford Shopping Center, both along
the side closest to Sand Hill Rd., at the location of what was formerly a

Smith & Hawken. Crate & Barrel is back by Nordstrom.

Ah, thanks. I thought I was likely getting it wrong, but I couldn't
come up with the right name.

Post by Steve Fenwick
Stanford Mall used to have good food (Max's in the old days; Sandy's
Kitchen) many, many bizbees ago. Palo Alto Creamery still has good
ambience (outside, anyway) and decent corned beef hash, but that's about
it for food there now.

Max's never had good food. :)

My favorite long-ago place was The Perfect Recipe -- an excellent
assortment of interesting sandwiches, plus salads and good desserts.
Nothing fancy, either food or prices, but nonetheless unique.

[Steve Fenwick]

In article

Post by Al Eisner

Post by Steve Fenwick
Stanford Mall used to have good food (Max's in the old days; Sandy's
Kitchen) many, many bizbees ago. Palo Alto Creamery still has good
ambience (outside, anyway) and decent corned beef hash, but that's about
it for food there now.

Max's never had good food. :)

Back before the mid-90s remodel--the one in which they took out the arch
to the back seating area and replaced it by the slanted beam--they had a
few excellent things, including a crispy appetizer. But even as long ago
as 2002, I was referring to the Stanford Max's as already having gone
downhill.

Steve

[Al Eisner]

Post by Steve Fenwick
In article

Post by Al Eisner

Post by Steve Fenwick
Stanford Mall used to have good food (Max's in the old days; Sandy's
Kitchen) many, many bizbees ago. Palo Alto Creamery still has good
ambience (outside, anyway) and decent corned beef hash, but that's about
it for food there now.

Max's never had good food. :)

Back before the mid-90s remodel--the one in which they took out the arch
to the back seating area and replaced it by the slanted beam--they had a
few excellent things, including a crispy appetizer. But even as long ago
as 2002, I was referring to the Stanford Max's as already having gone
downhill.

I concede that there might have been a few good items which I never
tried. (What is a "crispy appetizer" Sounds rather generic.) But
the items they most pushed, i.e., NY-style deli, were never any good.
The desserts were tempting, but in practice too sweet and a sort of
overkill (perhaps literally).